Jad Abumrad:
Uh, wait, you're listening (laughs)...
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Speaker 3:
All right.
Speaker 2:
Okay.
Speaker 3:
All right.
Speaker 4:
You are listening to Radio Lab, Lab.
Speaker 7:
Radio Lab.
Speaker 4:
From...
Speaker 8:
WNYC.
Speaker 4:
C?
Speaker 8:
Yup.
Jad Abumrad:
Hey, everybody. Chad here. This is Radio Lab. Happy holidays. This is the first of two releases we're gonna drop this week. Both, uh, come from the same dude. The irrepressible Latif Nasser. Uh. Latif has been working with Radio Lab for about nine years, first as a contributor and then, uh, we brought him on staff full-time. And, he has told you stories about the racial barriers and professional ice skating, badminton, um. He brought you the three part Border Trilogy, a story about n-nuclear change of command, uh. He's working on somethin' really cool for 2019, which we'll be bringing you soon. And, um... Yeah, we have two Latifs for you, uh, for you, uh, this week. Uh, in a couple days, we're gonna actually send you a conversation that Latif had about how he finds the weird, peculiar stories that he s-seems to always find. Uh, he has a really interesting set of techniques that he goes through. Um. He wrote this article about it, it went sort of viral. So, we're gonna bring you a conversation, uh, were he goes through some of that stuff.
Jad Abumrad:
Uh, but today, I thought I'd play you the very first story that Latif did for us. Um, this goes back a ways. At the time, he was a grad student at Harvard. And, uh, he'd written us an email saying, "Hey, are you guys into old robots? Like, robots that are a few hundred years old?" And then he had a whole list of them. Uh, like, for example, picking up with the story, I've heard rumors-
Latif Nasser:
Mm-hmm (affirmative).
Jad Abumrad:
Whispered by Soren mostly-
Latif Nasser:
(laughs).
Jad Abumrad:
Uh, about a pooping duck.
Latif Nasser:
A poo... Oh, so the pooping duck is really famous, actually. The b-duck wasn't really eating and pooping, but they had, like, a store of, like, pre, pre-pooped duck poop.
Jad Abumrad:
(Laughs)
Latif Nasser:
I don't know what it was. It looked like duck poop, maybe.
Jad Abumrad:
And you would feed this robot duck and then watch it actually poop?
Latif Nasser:
Oh, I mean, all you see is you see sort of this in and this out and-
Jad Abumrad:
And people believed it?
Latif Nasser:
People thought this was a, this was a pooping duck. Um. And-
Jad Abumrad:
So, we talked about a bunch of these, uh, ancient robots and most of them are kind of funny. But then he told us about one in particular that was-
Robert Krulwich:
Actually, it was kinda haunting.
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah, it's not poopy at all.
Latif Nasser:
So, the year is, uh, is 1562. This is 450 years ago.
Jad Abumrad:
Not so long after Columbus.
Robert Krulwich:
Yeah. Ferdinand and Isabella are dead, and there's a new king of Spain.
Jad Abumrad:
Philip.
Robert Krulwich:
Philip. Yeah. And he has a son.
Latif Nasser:
The 17 year old crown prince. His name's Don Carlos.
Jad Abumrad:
And one day-
Latif Nasser:
He's in the royal lodgings, uh, he's walking down a flight of stairs, he trips, he falls, he bashes his head against a door near the bottom of the stairs.
Jad Abumrad:
Mmm. This is the crown prince, you say?
Latif Nasser:
The crown prince of Spain.
Jad Abumrad:
So this is a, a national calamity.
Latif Nasser:
It is a national calamity 'cause he's the heir apparent.
Jad Abumrad:
Mmm.
Latif Nasser:
Right? So, so, so wh... At first it doesn't look like it's such a bad injury. He's still conscious, but then his head starts to swell to this kind of crazy size. He becomes delirious and feverish. He's struck blind.
Jad Abumrad:
Oo.
Latif Nasser:
And so, at this point the, the king comes. Right? This is King Philip the second, so he is at this time, he is the most powerful man in the world, right? So he basically controls the, all of the Americas, he controls much of Europe. The Philippines is named after him.
Jad Abumrad:
He was tight with the pope.
Latif Nasser:
At this time, the pope and the king were kind of, like, you know, BFF.
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah.
Latif Nasser:
So, so the whole Spanish court is going nuts. Um, across the country people are, uh, seeing this, reading this as a kind of sign that, uh, that God's very angry, right?
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah.
Latif Nasser:
And so, they're, they're fasting, they're doing these kinds of, uh, prayer processions, things like this.
Jad Abumrad:
And according to Latif, the King calls all the best doctors in Europe to come to Spain to help his son. And these doctors are trying everything.
Latif Nasser:
They are drilling a hole in his skull...
Jad Abumrad:
To relieve the pressure?
Latif Nasser:
To relieve the pressure, they are bleeding him and blistering him, and they are purging him to the extent that he has, like, 20 bowel movements within just, like, a certain few hours.
Jad Abumrad:
(laughs).
Latif Nasser:
They're, like, smearing all over the wound. They're, they're smearing, like, turpentine and honey-
Jad Abumrad:
Wow. Poor Don Carlos.
Latif Nasser:
But the... even after all of this, um, the, they sort of l-look at each other, they, they look at him, and it's kind of like, this is... He's gonna die. It's, it's, it's-
Jad Abumrad:
So he is dying.
Latif Nasser:
Yeah. He's basically on his death bed.
Jad Abumrad:
So, at this point, according to Latif, the king goes to his son-
Latif Nasser:
Legend goes that he kneels beside, uh, his son at his son's death bed, and he makes a pact with God. The pact is, if you, if you help me, if you heal my son, if you do this miracle for me, I'll do a miracle for you.
Jad Abumrad:
Wow, that's, that's, uh, that's quite a hubristic of a, of a human being to say to God.
Latif Nasser:
Oh, let's also remember that he's the, he's, he's the most powerful man i-i-in the world at this point.
Jad Abumrad:
He is a God among men, really.
Latif Nasser:
Yeah. Hubristic or not, this is, this is, is what he says.
Jad Abumrad:
Okay.
Latif Nasser:
All of a sudden, his son just gets better.
Jad Abumrad:
Really?
Latif Nasser:
Within a week he can see again, within a month he, i-it's as if he didn't fall at all.
Jad Abumrad:
He just pops right back up?
Latif Nasser:
Yeah.
Robert Krulwich:
And King Philip must have thought, "Well my God, this is, this is amazing."
Jad Abumrad:
Exactly. My God is probably exactly what he thought.
Robert Krulwich:
(laughs) Yeah.
Jad Abumrad:
And when his son can finally speak, he says to him, "Dad, you know, the weirdest thing happened when I was out. I had this dream."
ElizabethKing:
Oh, that's a great story.
Jad Abumrad:
This is Elizabeth King.
ElizabethKing:
I'm an artist and, uh, a professor in the sculpture department at Virginia Commonwealth University.
Jad Abumrad:
She's actually the one that hooked Latif on the story.
Latif Nasser:
Yep.
Jad Abumrad:
In any case, the dream.
ElizabethKing:
There are documents of Don Carlo next morning saying that he had had a dream.
Latif Nasser:
This vision.
ElizabethKing:
That a, that a figure-
Latif Nasser:
In a, in a Franciscan habit-
ElizabethKing:
Shaved head-
Robert Krulwich:
Sharp nose.
ElizabethKing:
This marvelous monk-
Jad Abumrad:
Entered his room-
Latif Nasser:
And approached his death bed holding a cross and basically told him, "You're gonna be fine."
ElizabethKing:
And that's quite well documented.
Robert Krulwich:
Apparently, there was a witness in the room.
ElizabethKing:
In the sick room, with him that night.
Robert Krulwich:
Who overheard the prince talking to a ghost, sort of mumbling things in his delirium.
Jad Abumrad:
So, Don Carlos has this dream, suddenly he's fine. And the natural question that people are asking is, "Who is this monk?"
Latif Nasser:
Yeah.
ElizabethKing:
Yeah.
Robert Krulwich:
I mean, is it just a generic monk, or is it somebody specific? Some messenger from God.
Jad Abumrad:
And from his description-
Latif Nasser:
Physical description-
Jad Abumrad:
The shaved head, the-
Robert Krulwich:
Pointy nose, the monk's habit-
Jad Abumrad:
Piercing eyes, even the kind of cross he was using. Everybody in town, the king, everyone was like, "Oh yeah."
Latif Nasser:
"Like, we know exactly who this guy is."
Jad Abumrad:
Can really only be one guy.
Latif Nasser:
Kind of local Friar who died 100 years before named, uh, Diego De Alcala.
Jad Abumrad:
Diego De Alcala.
Robert Krulwich:
Who's he?
ElizabethKing:
He is a, a local holy figure whose corpse was associated with a number of documented miracles.
Jad Abumrad:
In fact, this guy was so holy in this town.
Robert Krulwich:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)-
Jad Abumrad:
Actually, not just in the town. You wanna know something?
Robert Krulwich:
What?
Jad Abumrad:
Here's a bit of trivia. Ever heard of San Diego?
Robert Krulwich:
California, you mean?
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah, as in the Padres?
Robert Krulwich:
Well, is he have to... Is this the same guy?
Jad Abumrad:
Same guy! [crosstalk 00:07:37] He was the patron saint of the people who founded San Diego.
Robert Krulwich:
Oh, my, he is holy.
Latif Nasser:
All right, so, here you go.
Jad Abumrad:
There you go. So, he was so holy in this town-
Latif Nasser:
(laughs).
Jad Abumrad:
... that people believed his corpse, his 100 year dead corpse, had healing powers.
Latif Nasser:
And some people, there are different stories, but some people say that even they, uh, these-
Jad Abumrad:
That unbeknownst to Don Carlos, that night that he had the dream...
ElizabethKing:
The priesthood and the king himself, according to some stories, went and they got this corpse out of the church, out of the crypt. They carried it through the streets, they brought it to the bedroom, they-
Latif Nasser:
Literally, put it... They sort of snuck it in bed with, uh, Don Carlos, and that's how he healed.
Robert Krulwich:
They didn't stick 'im in bed with his bones, right?
Jad Abumrad:
Did they, did they...
Robert Krulwich:
They just kind of, they brought him into the room.
ElizabethKing:
There's different reports, but there's
Jad Abumrad:
(laughs).
ElizabethKing:
... but there's a picture of it in, in this engraving.
Jad Abumrad:
Oh!
ElizabethKing:
Um, and if you can, you probably [crosstalk 00:08:26] can't see it, but look at this picture right here.
Robert Krulwich:
She had a, a copy of a 16th... roughly a 16th century woodcut, showing you this scene-
Jad Abumrad:
Where you could kind of see...
Jad Abumrad:
Oh, wait. So there [crosstalk 00:08:39].
Robert Krulwich:
They're dunkin' him! They're dunkin' him over the bed!
Jad Abumrad:
He's in bed!
Jad Abumrad:
The two men in bed together.
Latif Nasser:
One guy who's alive, barely, and another guys whose been dead 100 years.
ElizabethKing:
[crosstalk 00:08:47] Well, they could be, you know, they could be just laying him down.
Latif Nasser:
(laughs).
Robert Krulwich:
Okay. Yeah. He's caught in the middle.
ElizabethKing:
It could be we're seeing it, we're seeing at a great dis-
Jad Abumrad:
Meanwhile, back to our story; you got Philip the second, who has asked God for a miracle. God came through, through this monk, and now Philip the second is like, "Uh oh."
Latif Nasser:
I gotta deliver. King Philip the second always got a miracle.
Jad Abumrad:
That miracle after the break.
Bryan:
Hey, this is Bryan in Red Bluff, California. Radio Lab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org.
Commercial:
With so many new podcasts, how do you find your next obsession? Try Pocket Casts. The free podcast app designed by listeners for listeners, with curated recommendations, discovery is easy and seamless. When you find something you like, just hit play. Find all your favorite shows, old and new, at pocketcast.com, or find us in the Apple app, or Google Play stores.
Jad Abumrad:
I'm Jad Abumrad, this is Radio Lab. Let's return now to our story from Latif Nasser where we left off. It is 1562ish, King Philip is on the hook, he knows he owes God a miracle.
Latif Nasser:
And he's, he's acutely aware of this. So basically what he does is he enlists this really renowned clock maker.
Jad Abumrad:
A clock maker.
Latif Nasser:
Yep, named, uh, Juanelo Turriano.
ElizabethKing:
A huge man. A big ox of a man, described as always being filthy and blustery and not a lot of fun to be around, but a great, great clock maker.
Jad Abumrad:
Certainly among the best.
ElizabethKing:
In Spain.
Robert Krulwich:
Maybe the entire holy Roman Empire.
Latif Nasser:
So, the king, he goes to this guy and he says, "Look. I want you to make a mechanical version of Diego De Alcala."
Robert Krulwich:
What?
Jad Abumrad:
A mechanical version of this 100 year dead holy priest.
Latif Nasser:
Yes. Like a mechanical monk.
Robert Krulwich:
A robotic padre.
Latif Nasser:
Yeah! Which-
Jad Abumrad:
And this I did not expect... still exists!
Latif Nasser:
Now the monk-bot is in the Smithsonian, perfect working order.
Jad Abumrad:
No way.
Latif Nasser:
I swear, I swear. The... And since 1977.
Jad Abumrad:
No.
Latif Nasser:
Yeah!
Carlene Stevens:
The first time I saw this figure, I was drawn to it and then repelled.
Jad Abumrad:
That's Carlene Stevens. She is a curator at the Smithsonian in DC. About a week after Latif and I spoke, we ended up in DC meeting with her, and she showed us...
Robert Krulwich:
Oh, wow. [inaudible 00:11:34] Wow.
Jad Abumrad:
The monk who lives in a little glass case.
Carlene Stevens:
What we have here is an automaton over 400 years old. Um, and-
Jad Abumrad:
So... Fir... Is this the first robot that we know of?
Carlene Stevens:
No.
Jad Abumrad:
No. No, no.
Carlene Stevens:
No.
Jad Abumrad:
No, idiot.
Carlene Stevens:
The ancient greeks-
Jad Abumrad:
Mm-hmm (affirmative)-
Carlene Stevens:
... had things that could be considered robots-
Jad Abumrad:
Okay, back to our story. 450 some-odd years ago, our clock maker... What's his name?
Robert Krulwich:
Uh, Torriano.
Jad Abumrad:
Torriano.
Robert Krulwich:
He goes into his shop and he, he does whatever he does.
Jad Abumrad:
Connects one gear to another, to another-
Robert Krulwich:
For hours-
Jad Abumrad:
Weeks, months.
Latif Nasser:
No idea how long it takes. And I don't think anybody does.
Jad Abumrad:
But he emerges one day into the bright sunshine-
Carlene Stevens:
So, this is clockworks-
Jad Abumrad:
...with... What did you call it?
Robert Krulwich:
A robotic padre.
Latif Nasser:
Yeah. It's a 15 inch high-
Carlene Stevens:
Figure-
Latif Nasser:
... made of wood and iron. Has the sort of habit, has the sandals, has the rosary, has the cross.
Jad Abumrad:
And poking out of the top of the habit is a little-
Carlene Stevens:
Bald, hairless head.
Jad Abumrad:
With that sharp nose like a, like a razor.
Carlene Stevens:
And the rather ferocious eyes.
Robert Krulwich:
Like, intense? Or like, uh, doing business ferocious?
Jad Abumrad:
[crosstalk 00:12:38] Well, like, I'm focused.
Robert Krulwich:
I'm focused.
Jad Abumrad:
Like, maybe I'm only 15 inches tall, but I am focused on something much bigger than you, you human.
Robert Krulwich:
So did you, like, turn it on or push something or-?
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah. Why would I get on a train and go for three hours-
Robert Krulwich:
(laughs).
Jad Abumrad:
... just to go look at it?
Robert Krulwich:
All right, all right. Obvious question.
Carlene Stevens:
Okay, do you want to wind it?
Latif Nasser:
Sure. Yeah.
Carlene Stevens:
Okay.
Latif Nasser:
Okay.
Jad Abumrad:
So Carlene takes us out into the hall, we sit down on the floor, she gives Latif a little brass key, he sticks it into the secret slot in the monk's side-
Carlene Stevens:
And I think it goes counterclockw-
Latif Nasser:
Okay.
Carlene Stevens:
You would tend, you would tend to wanna do it this way. Let me just-
Jad Abumrad:
And Latif winds up the monk.
Latif Nasser:
And I'm turning it counterclockwise, and it's surprisingly sort of taut. How much should I turn it?
Latif Nasser:
And so, if you sort of wind up this sort of secret spring-
Carlene Stevens:
I think there's a stop, and it'll-
Latif Nasser:
Oh, okay. All right, I'm goin'. I'm goin'.
Jad Abumrad:
Put it on the ground.
Carlene Stevens:
Wanna just-
Latif Nasser:
All right.
Carlene Stevens:
Let him go?
Latif Nasser:
Yeah.
Carlene Stevens:
Give him a push.
Jad Abumrad:
It'll walk very slowly-
ElizabethKing:
One foot after the other coming out from under the cassick. In fact, there's actually little wheels under there. But yet, you see the feet coming out, the head is turning from right to left, the eyes are rolling in the head, the mouth is opening and closing.
Jad Abumrad:
As if it's sort of muttering, like, a prayer.
ElizabethKing:
The arms are in motion. One arm is raising and lowering across, the other arm is beating the chest.
Jad Abumrad:
Wow.
Carlene Stevens:
A symbolic gesture-
ElizabethKing:
... to a Catholic-
Carlene Stevens:
That is called the mea culpa.
ElizabethKing:
After three or four steps, the, the arm holding the cross does something new. It moves two different new directions to bring the cross to the mouth, and the figure kisses the cross.
Speaker 14:
[inaudible 00:14:27]
Latif Nasser:
[inaudible 00:14:28] it's oddly like, uh, mesmerizing.
Carlene Stevens:
Yes.
Latif Nasser:
Yeah.
Carlene Stevens:
Yeah.
ElizabethKing:
The next thing that it's doing is that it's turning and moving in a different direction, and then walking its paces and kissing the cross.
Jad Abumrad:
As we watched it turn once, then twice, then three times, four times, then it got back to where it started.
ElizabethKing:
So, if you imagine a table with a number of people sitting around it, probably it's gonna sort of, at one point or another, head for you, and then turn away and head for someone else-
Jad Abumrad:
Wow
ElizabethKing:
... and then turn away.
Robert Krulwich:
Why would the king of Spain, uh, who could've, you know, I don't know, built a church, or, or taken a crusade to Jerusalem or done something, you know, he coulda done anything. Why did he decide to commemorate his son's revival by making a little m... automatic doll? Like, what was that for?
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah, Latif, what was he thinking?
Latif Nasser:
Yeah, it's a, it's a good qu-
ElizabethKing:
That's the $64, 000 dollar question.
Latif Nasser:
It's a great question.
Carlene Stevens:
It's a really good question.
Jad Abumrad:
The truth is, there's really no way to know for sure.
Carlene Stevens:
And as a historian I gotta, I gotta rely on the documentation.
Jad Abumrad:
And there's not a whole lot of that in this case, but one interpretation certainly could be that, you know, the king had this amazing, miraculous thing happen to his son, and now he had a way of sharing that with his subjects. 'Cause he's got this device where it's a, it's an illusion, like, the machinery of it is completely hidden.
Latif Nasser:
There's no visible m-
Jad Abumrad:
That's the-
Latif Nasser:
Yeah. That's one of the craziest parts. That it's all sort of hidden underneath the, the robe.
Jad Abumrad:
So, when he put it down on a table or in a courtyard, people would've seen it move on its own. They woulda been amazed, as we were, and he coulda said, "Look, here is the miracle. Look what God did for our country."
Robert Krulwich:
God like Spaniards.
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah, look at what God did for Spain-
Robert Krulwich:
Hmm.
Jad Abumrad:
... which woulda been a useful thing for a king to be able to say, right?
Robert Krulwich:
Yep.
Jad Abumrad:
That's, so that's one possibility. The other is just that on a more utilitarian level, this was a machine that was built to pray.
ElizabethKing:
And, this was a period when you could buy prayer repetition.
Jad Abumrad:
So if you had the money-
ElizabethKing:
You could get someone to pray for you while you go do something out.
Jad Abumrad:
Oh, that's so cool!
Robert Krulwich:
Oh, so you're, you're, so you're covered.
ElizabethKing:
You're, you're covered.
Jad Abumrad:
And if you think about it from Philip's perspective, he needed to say thank you to God, and he had had this thing where if he wound it up, was an automated thank you machine.
Robert Krulwich:
Thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you, thank you-
Jad Abumrad:
Yeah, it could be thank you, thank you, thank you.
Robert Krulwich:
Or it could be-
Jad Abumrad:
I love you, I love you, I love you, I love you-
Robert Krulwich:
I love you, I love you. Yeah.
ElizabethKing:
(laughs).
Latif Nasser:
It could also be, um, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm sorry.
Jad Abumrad:
(laughs).
Robert Krulwich:
(laughs).
ElizabethKing:
Well, yeah, or it could be please, please, please, please, please.
Jad Abumrad:
What if you [inaudible 00:16:51]? But, if you think about it more expansively, says Latif, like, what did it mean at that time to be a Catholic? Like, what did it really mean? Well, then this robot was maybe the best Catholic you could ever hope to be.
Latif Nasser:
What counted as prayer was, was quite specific in the sense that if you say the right things, and, and do the right actions in the right order, in the right time, and in the right place, sort of that's prayer. That's when God notices.
Jad Abumrad:
So, it's about method.
Latif Nasser:
It's about method, it's about-
Jad Abumrad:
And maybe this monk, he says, was, like, method embodied.
ElizabethKing:
That's a good one! I mean, why not?
Robert Krulwich:
Right.
ElizabethKing:
I mean, it is in fact perfect. W... It repeats itself-
Robert Krulwich:
Right.
ElizabethKing:
... over and over and over it... and it replicates the ideal.
Jad Abumrad:
So it's, basically what is it, is-
Carlene Stevens:
A little, a little teaching object.
Latif Nasser:
Like, this is what you're aiming for.
ElizabethKing:
Here's how you do it.
Latif Nasser:
Like, this is it. This is the perfect prayer.
Jad Abumrad:
The perfect prayer.
Latif Nasser:
This is doing it the perfect way every time, and I, because I'm, I'm just this, you know, lowly, imperfect human, um, I'm not... I can only aspire to this perfect piety.
Jad Abumrad:
Are you making this up, or do you think that this, the monk might've actually been seen this way?
Latif Nasser:
It could be true.
Jad Abumrad:
(laughs).
Latif Nasser:
I don't think it's so crazy.
Jad Abumrad:
Especially if you think about what was happening at that moment. This is counter reformation Spain, right?
Latif Nasser:
Not so long after Luther, you know, is nailing his thesis on the wall, and-
Jad Abumrad:
And there's this big debate raging about how actually do you get closer to God?
Latif Nasser:
You have the kind of protesters with, with Luther who are saying it's not about, you know, works, it's not about saying something this many times, it's about whether you feel it. And then you have the kind of Catholic argument, which is to say you do these rituals because these are the rituals, and these are the way you get... This is the way you get close to God. Uh, this is the way you pray.
Jad Abumrad:
You pray like this thing.
Robert Krulwich:
Just like this thing. And if you're a Catholic king, and God's a Catholic, and you better hope he is.
Jad Abumrad:
And if you're Philip the second, you look at the sky and you say, "God, you and me are square."
Jad Abumrad:
There it is, early Latif Nasser. Thanks to him, and to you guys for listening and for making 2018 a year that, as tumultuous as it was, still contains a lot to be grateful for. And listen, we're raising money to produce Radio Lab in 2019. This is gonna be our most ambitious year. We have a ton of new things planned. New series that we're gonna be bringing you, but we need help getting them funded, so if you dig Radio Lab, if you want more of it, go to radiolab.org. Click that donate button, or text the word radio lab, no space, to 7-0-1-0-1, that's the word radio lab to 7-0-1-0-1. Thank you. We can't do this without you.
Jad Abumrad:
In just a couple days we're gonna be sending you another, uh, Latif situation. Conversation that he and producer Rachael Cusick had about how Latif finds stories. A bunch of techniques that I think we could all use in our lives, even if you're not doin' the thing that we're doin', but you just kinda wanna have more newness, more interestingness in your life. That's comin' up soon. Until then, I'm Jad Abumrad. Thanks for listening, and for supporting the show.
Speaker 15:
Hi, this is Tom, I'm calling from Seattle, Washington. Well, Radio Lab was created by Jad Abumrad and produced by Soran Wheeler. And Dylan Keef is our director of sound as Anna Matasar-Padilla is our manager director. Our staff includes Simon Adler, Becka Bressier, and Rachael Cusick, David Gabbel, Bethel Habte, and Tracy Hunt. Well, Matt Kilty, Robert Krulwich, Annie McEwan, and Latif Nasser, Melissa O'Donnell, and Arianne Wack, Pat Walters, Molly Webster. With help from Sheema [inaudible 00:21:13], Cat Slazlo, and Moe Asabayomo. Our fact checker is Michelle Harris.
Copyright © 2019 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.
New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of New York Public Radio’s programming is the audio record.
