ANDY ROWE: Okay.

JAD ABUMRAD: This is Andy Rowe.

ANDY ROWE: So I've got here, can you hear it rattling because it's falling apart?

JAD: He's a TV producer in London. And in his office where we reached him, he's got these very special metal balls.

ANDY ROWE: This is the original prototype of a Golden Ball. It's lovely and shiny. It's very light.

JAD: Each one's the size of maybe an orange or a tangerine or a tennis ball painted gold.

ANDY ROWE: And it makes a very satisfying clunk when it closes.

JAD: And that clunk? That is the sound of betrayal. Because Andy has used these balls to bring out the worst in people. To show how ugly and conniving we can be. But also how wonderful.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: And if you think you know about all that, then you could win big on Golden Balls.]

JAD: Okay, so we're talking about a game show called, of course ...

ANDY ROWE: Golden Balls.

JAD: Andy was one of the executive producers. Did pretty well.

ANDY ROWE: We were really, really proud of Golden Balls.

JAD: Ran for three years in the UK.

ANDY ROWE: Nearly 300 episodes in quite a short space of time in the show. We thought it was such fun.

JAD: And it is fun, because in many ways it is just a normal game show, but I would argue there is more going on here. In fact, I'm about to argue that. Because there is a moment in one of those 300 episodes, one moment that I just cannot shake. Because you remember the first time I showed you this clip.

ROBERT KRULWICH: I certainly do. I was totally, totally, totally thrown by it.

JAD: Because what's about to happen is that two guys with totally different moral philosophies are about to go—boom! Yes, with some fascinating results. And this story, in fact, inspired the whole show.

ROBERT: It did. Today ...

JAD: Three different smackdowns, all that somehow smack down not in the way that you would expect.

ROBERT: Different people, different dreams, different world views.

JAD: All going pow! And we're calling this show ...

ROBERT: What's Left When You're Right.

JAD: Which is ...

ROBERT: Genius. You'll find that out later.

JAD: It will ultimately make sense.

ROBERT: Perfect sense, I think.

JAD: Yeah.

ROBERT: Later.

JAD: For now, can we get the Golden Balls happening?

ROBERT: Yeah.

ANDY ROWE: All I can remember was that ...

JAD: All right. So before we get to the moment that I want to talk about, we kind of have to walk a few paces to sort of lay the foundation, which is that we have to explain the rules of this game, which are, uh ...

ANDY ROWE: You cannot describe Golden Balls in a sentence to anybody. It makes no sense whatsoever.

JAD: But I will try and simplify. So basically, there are all these early rounds where people are winning money, losing money, cheating each other, lying, strategizing, voting one another off the show. I'm gonna skip all that, because it is in the last five minutes ...

ANDY ROWE: That all hell breaks loose. And it's that classic shout at the telly moment where you're sitting at home going, "I can't believe what that guy just did. I can't believe he just did that."

JAD: Because basically, the whole game culminates with a face-off.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: You now face a very straightforward choice.]

JAD: Two players sit on opposite sides of a table with this host between them.

ANDY ROWE: Yeah, Jasper Carrot his name is.

JAD: A man whose head is as shiny and smooth as a golden ball itself.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: [laughs]]

JAD: Yeah, I know. I just edited in someone laughing at my own joke. That just happened. In any case, when you get to this moment at the end of the game ...

ANDY ROWE: Where there's two people facing each other in the spotlight. It's all gone quiet. In that moment, their hearts are racing.

JAD: Because they've got to make this key choice, which is not just about money. Although there is money on the line, of course. It is a choice that will reveal who they really are.

ROBERT: Uh-huh.

JAD: Not—who we all are.

ROBERT: Okay. What ...

JAD: Humanity's soul will be laid bare.

ROBERT: This may be true, but why don't we just lay out the rules themselves?

JAD: Sorry. Got a little carried away.

ROBERT: No, that's ...

JAD: All right. So in the final round, each of the contestants get two Golden Balls.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: And they are the most important Golden Balls of the game.]

JAD: One ball says 'Split.'

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: You each have a Golden Ball with the word 'Split' written inside.]

JAD: And the other ball says 'Steal.'

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: You both have a ball with the word 'Steal' written inside.]

JAD: Now 'Split,' like, say you and I are playing, right?

ROBERT: Yeah.

JAD: If I choose the 'Split' ball, what I'm really saying is that this jackpot whatever it is, say it's £3,200 Sterling, okay?

ROBERT: Yeah.

JAD: I'm saying I want to split it with you. Let's just split it in half, 50/50, even Steven. I'm a good guy. Now if you also choose 'Split,' then we split it. You get half, I get half everybody's happy.

ANDY ROWE: The feeling of kind of joy that everybody had when it was a split was fantastic.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: You're both going home with £1,600 each.]

JAD: Okay, so that's one outcome. That's one of four outcomes, I believe. Because obviously there are other ways this could go. Because one or both of the contestants can choose 'Steal.' And what 'Steal' basically says is: forget sharing, I want to take the whole thing for myself. And if we both decide that ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: If you both choose the 'Steal' ball ...]

JAD: We both screw each other and it cancels out.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: You leave today's game with what you came with—nothing.]

JAD: Nobody gets anything.

ROBERT: Nothing. I like the way he says, "Nothing."

JAD: Nothing.

ROBERT: With a little bit of contempt.

JAD: Deservedly.

ROBERT: Yes.

JAD: Two greedy people deserve nothing. Nothing.

ROBERT: Except each other.

JAD: Exactly.

ROBERT: Which equals nothing.

JAD: Right. So if we both decide to split, it is mutually good. If we both decide to steal, it is mutually bad. Now where things get thorny is that say you got a mismatch, like one person chooses split, the other person chooses steal. Now in that scenario, the person who chose split, the nice guy or gal, gets nothing. Whereas, the person who chose steal, the conniving duplicitous bastard takes everything.

ROBERT: So you—if you steal and the other person is kind, then you walk away with the money.

JAD: Yeah. I mean, by the way, this is the classic prisoner's dilemma from game theory which some people may recognize. But the basic idea is that there is an incentive to share, because if you split you split, each person takes half. But there is also an incentive to lie, because if I can convince you to share the money and I turn around and shaft you, well then I get more money that way.

ROBERT: Hmm.

JAD: And the best part about this game for our purposes, is that before the contestants make a choice, Jasper the host gets them to talk to each other about what they're gonna do.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Okay, before I ask you to choose, I think you have some talking to do to each other.]

JAD: All right, so watch this one. You got a young blonde girl facing off with a larger gentleman with a mustache.

ROBERT: Older. Yeah.

JAD: And the jackpot is £100,000.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: Stephen, I just hope they weren't puppy dog tears and they were real tears and you were genuinely gonna split that money.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, male contestant: I am going to split this. I'm just—£50,000. I'm just—it's unbelievable. £50,000.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: And you're genuinely gonna split this.]

JAD: She's crying at this point.

ROBERT: She's kind of adorable. I like her. She's like an innocent.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, male contestant: If I stole off you, every single person there would run over here and lynch me.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: There is no way I could—I mean, everyone who knew me would just be disgusted if I stole.]

ROBERT: See how he's gripping his legs? He's up to something.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: Please.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, male contestant: Sarah, I can look you straight in the eye and tell you I am going to split.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: Promise.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, male contestant: I swear down to you. I am going to split.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Okay. This is serious money. Sarah? Steve? Choose either the split or the steal ball now. Hold it up.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, male contestant: We're going home with 50 grand each. I promise you that.]

JAD: The moment of truth.

[ARCHIVE CLIP: Crowd gasps.]

JAD: He chose split, she chose steal.

ROBERT: The nice girl was a thief! The nice girl was bad.

JAD: Every time I see this it totally breaks my heart, because the guy just falls onto the desk. He's got his head in his hands. He's just destroyed.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Stephen, I'm so sorry. Commiserations. You've lost.]

ROBERT: Look—look at her. She's looking away. She can't look at him. He's fallen into a slump on the table.

JAD: It's just awful.

ANDY ROWE: It's evil, isn't it? It's such a good little game. [laughs]

JAD: And here's the thing: if you analyze all the outcomes, which social scientists have done, what you see is that a majority of the time something like what I just showed you happens. People get up there and they're like, "I swear ..."

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: I swear I will never ...]

JAD: "... I am a good person."

[ARCHIVE CLIP, female contestant: I'm not that type of person. I could ...]

JAD: Over and over they say, "I'm not the kind of person that's gonna cheat you," and then they do it. They stab them in the back. And these are grandmas, policemen. And here's my theory. It's not that they're mean people, it's that they don't want to be that guy slumped on the table. They don't want to be the sucker. The fear of being the sucker far overwhelms the desire to do good to their fellow contestant.

ROBERT: There's something wrong with this program.

JAD: [laughs]

ROBERT: The obvious thing to do is to share. You manage to wheedle your way into the approximate possession of a fortune, and all you have to do is agree to split it.

JAD: But what if you don't trust the person across the table from you, would you still share it?

ROBERT: Well, that's—that's interesting.

JAD: Yeah.

ROBERT: Let's suppose I happen to be—I'm introduced to a person named Snidely Whiplash. And he has an enormous oiled mustache and he's wearing a cape, and he has this habit of rubbing his hands malevolently.

JAD: And his eyes are twitching.

ROBERT: And his eyes are twitching. So I'm sitting opposite him, and I'm planning to share with this guy? See, it's in a situation like that ...

JAD: That's when it's a real test in this game. So what do you do if you don't want to be a sucker and you're not sure you can trust the person across the table? There's no good answer to that. But then ...

NICK CORRIGAN: Hi.

JAD: Hi, is this Nick?

NICK CORRIGAN: It is.

JAD: This brings us to the moment in question. We ran into this guy.

NICK CORRIGAN: My name's Nick Corrigan. I work for Media Academy Cardiff based in Wales.

JAD: So Nick runs a not-for-profit in Wales, and right away when you talk to him you notice two things. He loves Wales.

NICK CORRIGAN: It's the most beautiful country in the world.

JAD: And he loves game shows.

NICK CORRIGAN: Yes.

JAD: What was your first one?

NICK CORRIGAN: When I was about 17.

JAD: He was on a quiz show.

NICK CORRIGAN: And I won a book.

JAD: Nick has since been on, by his count, 44 game shows.

ROBERT: Whoa!

JAD: He's won 43 of them, he says. He's won a boat. He's won a house full of stuff. Trips to various places. This is like what he does.

ROBERT: Whoa!

JAD: And when he first encountered Golden Balls, he noticed the same miserable pattern that we all noticed, which is like the nice people get up there, they say, "Let's share."

NICK CORRIGAN: Let's do it. We can be in this together. And then every time they were just shafted.

JAD: But then Nick got an idea.

JAD: How did you get that idea?

NICK CORRIGAN: I think I was probably swimming. I get all my greatest ideas when I'm swimming. It was only when I went back and had a cup of tea, as everybody in Wales obviously drinks tea.

ROBERT: With your lump of coal right next to you.

NICK CORRIGAN: Yes.

ROBERT: Your pet. Your little pet coal lump.

NICK CORRIGAN: Coal is very important to Wales. When I got back I thought, actually it can't fail.

JAD: So Nick makes it onto the show, makes it to the last round.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Welcome back to Golden Balls.]

JAD: And he finds himself sitting across the table from a man named Ibrahim who, the two of them are a study in contrasts. Nick is tall, he's got really intense eyes, feathered hair. Ibrahim is short and bald and looks kind of like a mini-Telly Savalas.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Ibrahim and Nick, you now face a very straightforward choice.]

JAD: Jasper the host lays out the scenario. They're—they're competing for £14,000.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: They have to decide to split or steal.]

JAD: And now we get to the good part. Now keep in mind as you listen to this, that almost 100 percent of the time what happens in this moment is one person looks at the other and says, "I promise you I will choose the split ball. We'll share it."

ROBERT: "We'll share it together."

JAD: Yeah, that's what they say. Nick takes a very different approach.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Ibrahim, I want you to trust me. 100 percent, I'm going to pick the steal ball.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: Sorry, you're gonna ...?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I'm gonna choose the steal ball.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: You're gonna take ...]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I want you to do split, and I promise you that I will split the money with you.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: After you took the steal.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Yeah.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: You're gonna take steal.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Yeah.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: I'm gonna to take split.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Yeah.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: So you take the money ...]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: And I will split it with you.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: After the show.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Yeah.]

ANDY ROWE: There was—there was utter panic in the studio.

JAD: Because his whole idea was like, "I'm not even gonna pretend I'm not gonna steal."

ROBERT: And then I'll meet you on a corner after the television show and give you the half of it? Like, that's ridiculous.

ANDY ROWE: All the researchers started running around going, "What's he doing? Can this be done?" There was panic.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Ibrahim, I promise you I'll do that. If—if you do steal, we both walk away with nothing. I'm telling you 100 percent I'm going to do it.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: I appreciate that. Right, I'll give you another alternative. Why don't we just both pick split?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I'm not gonna pick split. I'm gonna steal. Ibrahim, honestly 100 percent am gonna steal.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: It's in your nature to steal?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: No. I—I'm honest, and I'm gonna tell you ...]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: You're an honest guy?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I am, that's why I'm telling you I'm gonna steal. If you do split, then I will split the money.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: I can't see myself doing that.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Okay. Well, I'm gonna steal, so we're gonna leave with nothing.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: Where is your brain coming from?]

[audience laughs]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: I can't work out ...]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I know that I'm a decent guy and I will split the money with you.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: Well, we should just both split then.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: No, I'm gonna do steal.]

JAD: And this argument went on and on.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Blimey O'Reilly.]

JAD: The actual argument, not the edited version online, went for ...

NICK CORRIGAN: 45 minutes.

JAD: There was name-calling, there were threats. And over those 45 minutes, there was an interesting shift. Nick says that the audience began to turn on him.

NICK CORRIGAN: The audience behind were booing me.

JAD: Which I get, because as I was watching—and I mean, initially it seems like a really cool, clever strategy, but then you realize as it goes on that he's being kind of an ass. Like, he's not giving the other guy a choice. He's actually kind of bullying him.

NICK CORRIGAN: No matter what he said, I was not budging from the fact. And it—my intransigence just infuriated him.

ROBERT: Did you ever actually, like, hate him, or actually ...?

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Yes, I did hate him. Yes. Yes. Yes, I did.

JAD: This is Ibrahim.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Ibrahim Hussein. I'm a market trader. I work on flea markets.

JAD: He sells textiles.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: In London.

ROBERT: It took us forever to track him down.

JAD: Months.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: [laughs] And you found me at last. But I did hate him, I think. Because he couldn't be—he couldn't—you couldn't negotiate with him. There was no negotiation. I was saying to him like, "If I give you my word that I'm gonna split then I'm gonna split."

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: If I gave you my word. Now let me tell you what my word means.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Okay.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: My father once said to me, "A man who doesn't keep his word is not a man. He's not worth nothing. Not worth a—not worth a dollar."]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I agree. So Ibrahim, I'm gonna steal, so you've got the choice.]

JAD: That was the point where I was like, "Nick, give the guy a chance, at least. Come on!"

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: We've lost it. We've lost everything.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I see. We've lost, then.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: We're walking away with no money because you're an idiot.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: No, that's not true.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: You're an idiot! You're an idiot! That's what you are, you're an idiot! You're an idiot! That's what you are!]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: This can go on all night, and these people have got to get up for breakfast. Nick, choose split or steal.]

JAD: And right before they have to make their decision, it seems that Ibrahim caves. Maybe Nick wore him down and he's like fine, "You choose steal. I'll choose split. Hopefully you'll share the money."

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: Well, I'll tell you what. I'm gonna go with you.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: Okay.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: I'm gonna go ...]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Nick Corrigan: I promise you I will split it.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: You cannot change your balls now. Split or steal?]

JAD: They both turn over their balls. Ibrahim as we suspected chose split.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: I felt I had no alternative.

JAD: And Nick also chose split!

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Jasper Carrot: Yes! Congratulations! You both split and each received £6,800.]

JAD: The whole game he swore he was gonna steal, but then he ends up splitting.

ROBERT: Do you think that he was lying the whole time and always intended to share?

JAD: I mean, he could have changed his mind at the last second. Whatever the case, here's why his strategy was so brilliant.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: I was shocked. I was shocked. I was taken aback.

JAD: When we asked Ibrahim like, if Nick hadn't been deployed that crazy strategy, would you have still split? Because that's what you were saying to him the whole time, that you were gonna split it. You were gonna share the money. Would you have still done it?

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: No. Not at all. Not at all. I was always gonna steal. I was never gonna split. Never. Never.

JAD: Really?

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Really. I was never gonna split.

ROBERT: Why?

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: But ...

ROBERT: Why?

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Well, the reason being if I split and the other guy steals, I'll get nothing. I'd rather both of us walk away with nothing, than someone—what's the word? Embarrass me to a certain extent.

JAD: Didn't want to be the sucker. And then I asked him, like, what about that speech with your dad? You know, that's the one that kind of got me.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ibrahim Hussein: My father once said to me, "A man who doesn't keep his word is not a man.]

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Can I—no, can I just jump in about that?

JAD: Yeah.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: My dad, I—I never met him. My mother brought me up, me and my brother and my sister. And I never ever met my father. [laughs]

ROBERT: So that—you made that up?

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: [laughs] I'm afraid so!

JAD: You made that up.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Yeah. Yeah. I think I saw it on a film once [laughs] and it always stuck with me. I thought, "I'll be able to use that one day." [laughs] I've never been a good boy.

JAD: I think that is the real victory here. Like, Nick got a guy who was never intending to share the money, whose whole philosophy was like ...

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: Don't trust anybody. Don't trust no one.

JAD: He got that guy to be good against his will, and that guy thanks him for it.

IBRAHIM HUSSEIN: He did con me to certain extent, but he conned me into £7,000. [laughs]

JAD: And Nick for his part is also grateful to have the money so he can give it to charity.

NICK CORRIGAN: I run a children's charity. I do all the health and safety and all the fundraising.

JAD: Is that connected in any way to your multiple appearances on game shows?

NICK CORRIGAN: Yes.

JAD: It is?

NICK CORRIGAN: Yes.

JAD: Huh. Directly?

NICK CORRIGAN: Yes.

JAD: I ...

NICK CORRIGAN: You sound surprised.

JAD: I do, because it's a very …

ROBERT: So while Nick is doing his good works, we will take a brief break.

JAD: Yep.

ROBERT: And be right back.

 

-30-

 

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