[RADIOLAB INTRO]

ROBERT KRULWICH: Here we go. Okay. Hi, I'm Robert Krulwich. This is Radiolab. And today with me is Simon Adler.

SIMON ADLER: That's me.

ROBERT: He's a reporter and producer here. And he's got us a tale.

SIMON: I do.

ROBERT: It's an American tale. And a kind of timely one, I think. How would you describe it?

SIMON: I think it's one of those classic us versus them tales.

ROBERT: Or actually maybe it's an us versus us story in its way.

SIMON: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, actually, I like that more because in fact it takes place right in America's heartland.

ROBERT: Where in the heartland?

SIMON: Nebraska.

MATTHEW HANSEN: Seneca, Nebraska. This tiny little town in central-west Nebraska.

SIMON: Okay.

MATTHEW HANSEN: It's near the town of Mullen, Nebraska, which you—you know, obviously also don't know.

SIMON: Yeah, that doesn't help me at all.

SIMON: So this is Matthew Hansen. He is a reporter with the—with the Omaha World-Herald. And a couple months back he got in touch with us because he had a story about this town.

MATTHEW HANSEN: Right. So I got an email from a woman who lives a couple miles outside of town. She was really upset.

SIMON: Because back in 2014, the town was split in half. And in fact, there was a group of people in the town who were ...

MATTHEW HANSEN: Circulating a petition. A petition that would end the town.

SIMON: Wait. Circulate a petition to end the town?

MATTHEW HANSEN: Yeah.

ROBERT: They didn't want to be a town anymore?

SIMON: Right.

ROBERT: Really?

SIMON: Yeah.

MATTHEW HANSEN: You know, by law if you have enough signatures on a petition you can get things on the ballot.

SIMON: And the question that ended up on the ballot was, "Should Seneca ..."

MATTHEW HANSEN: Cease to exist?

ROBERT: And this split, about a group of people to try to end their own town? It got us thinking about this split that seems to be this election right now. And it occurred to us that maybe, just maybe this tiny little town in the middle of Nebraska might have something to say about the rest of us.

SIMON: Well, and let's back up then.

MATTHEW HANSEN: Sure.

SIMON: So when—when did—all was well in Seneca until what?

MATTHEW HANSEN: It started with the horses.

SIMON: The horses. Okay, what—what are these horses?

MATTHEW HANSEN: There were—there were six horses. Actually, let me step back. There were a lot of horses in Seneca. Most people in Seneca ride horses, many own them, but there were these six particular horses right in the middle of town. And, you know, the split sort of started right there.

SIMON: So I got so curious about what went down in Seneca that I flew to Denver ...

SIMON: One, two, three, four, five.

SIMON: ... drove five and a half hours into the Sandhills of west-central Nebraska.

SIMON: Let's see if we can get anything on the radio here.

SIMON: These rolling sand dunes covered in grass that they ranch cattle on.

SIMON: There's another ranch. What's this one say?

SIMON: And smack dab in the middle of the Sandhills is Seneca.

SIMON: After many hours and many miles we are here. Okay, so we got these rolling hills that are green, dotted with these yellow flowers. "Junction 86A, Seneca." Okay, we've got kind of an old bigger red sign that says, "Welcome Seneca" with a big red line. Okay.

MATTHEW HANSEN: When you get there, it looks like ...

SIMON: ... starting to drive through town.

MATTHEW HANSEN: A picture postcard small town from yesteryear, bound by railroad tracks.

SIMON: To our right we've got the railroad. I'm taking a left.

MATTHEW HANSEN: I mean, really pretty.

SIMON: To my right, an abandoned house. To my left, another boarded-up house. Another street with absolutely nothing on it. An old gas station. It's all boarded up. Another run-down house that says "No Trespassing."

MATTHEW HANSEN: And just really tiny. I think one end to the other is one-eighth of a mile.

SIMON: And we're done. So there you go: at 30 miles per hour, it takes 10 seconds. Okay, turning around and wow! Okay, the house to the left here has a giant board over one of the windows and spray painted on it is "Sandy H. is a big fat liar." Interesting.

SIMON: And so I ended up just walking through this tiny town of Seneca.

ROBERT: You're, like, knocking every—on every door type thing?

SIMON: I think I may have knocked on every single door in the town.

ROBERT: Oh, man!

SIMON: Yeah. And of course, I ended up talking to some folks who wanted to end the town.

ROBERT: Uh-huh.

SIMON: Others who wanted to save it.

ROBERT: And?

SIMON: And first up, Judith Brown's house.

SIMON: She told—her notes to me were "Come down hill. First house is nice. That's not me. Burnt-up yard." I don't know if this is it. How are you this morning?

JUDITH BROWN: Well, now that it's morning and now you're here. And New York City and how do you do?

SIMON: Good. Very good to meet you.

JUDITH BROWN: Everyone told me I can't let you into my house, but I don't have any other way to cope with it.

SIMON: I'm not worried about it.

JUDITH BROWN: And you want to plug in, huh?

SIMON: No, I'm good. I'm all set here.

JUDITH BROWN: Oh good. Tell me who else you're gonna talk to.

SIMON: Larry Isom?

JUDITH BROWN: Oh! Okay, who else? [laughs]

SIMON: And Jackie Sevier.

JUDITH BROWN: Okay. I'm the sanest person you're gonna talk to today. [laughs] Just so you know that's what I think. What a terrible thing to say! I'm sorry about the cigarettes.

SIMON: No, don't worry. I want to get into more contemporary things but real quickly to set the stage, when did Seneca pop up on the map?

JUDITH BROWN: Well, all I know is when I was a little kid, it was a booming town.

SIMON: What would you do?

JUDITH BROWN: Well, I mean they had great dances and wonderful bands and beer. And there was no place else to go. I mean, Seneca used to be really, really fun. But okay, so let me tell you this story. Some people had come and they bought a house in Seneca. Okay, this would have been fine except they have all these animals. Nobody knows these people. And there is a big fuss about them and their abuse of these animals. They're sure these animals are being abused.

SIMON: See, I was under the impression that this was all about horses in a front yard. Is that true?

JUDITH BROWN: They had horses. They had six horses in their backyard.

LARRY ISOM: That's the yard.

SIMON: So we're talking, like, six horses in the size of a one-car garage?

LARRY ISOM: Exactly.

SIMON: Do you remember the first time you saw the horses here?

LARRY ISOM: Saw them or smelled them? Yeah. Both at the same time.

SIMON: Larry Isom, former member of the town board.

LARRY ISOM: I mean, it's pretty hard to miss when you drive down the street when there's six blocks to the town, you know? That's—it's easy to hear about things.

SIMON: And how did you decide that you were gonna take this up as a cause as a member of the town board?

LARRY ISOM: Because of the complaints that were called to my house. "What are you going to do about the horses? They're—they're up to their knees in excrement. What are you gonna do about it?"

SIMON: And so you pass—you wrote an ordinance, or ...?

LARRY ISOM: Yeah.

SIMON: And what did the ordinance say?

LARRY ISOM: I don't remember. It was two pages. But—but in any case, it stipulated a certain amount of square footage per horse as well as shelter.

JUDITH BROWN: Well, that was part of it. The thing about Seneca is there's always a war in Seneca.

SIMON: Again, Judith Brown.

JUDITH BROWN: Okay, six horses in the front yard, were the most concrete thing, but Larry Isom and the bats you're gonna go see, they have always wanted us to look more like a cute little Colorado tourist town.

SIMON: Wait, are we talking, like, beautification? Like ...

JUDITH BROWN: Yes. Yes. They wanted to create rules to create growth, and I think they wanted to keep us lower-class people in line. And so they were out here telling us what to do. And—oh, they'll tell you things about me.

JACKIE SEVIER: Judith? She did the '60s in New York. She even lived in a commune for a time until it rained out.

SIMON: The Save Seneca Three. Larry Isom again.

LARRY ISOM: No, you go.

SIMON: Nancy Isom, his wife. And here, Jackie Sevier.

JACKIE SEVIER: So we don't want to defend. We don't want to bicker. We don't want to open that up.

LARRY ISOM: The ordinances were necessary because of the situation that we were presented with. There was no elitism.

JACKIE SEVIER: They weren't on that board to dictate to anybody in this town. They needed covenants for the horses, that's where you started. And then you had people that was trying to say "You're not gonna tell me." And if you look around the little town, you'll see the ones that take pride in what they have. I'm sorry.

NANCY ISOM: And rigging that to the debate. Mm-hmm.

JUDITH BROWN: So the town was split in two. I mean, we could have liked each other, but we've had nothing but constant, constant fighting.

SIMON: Hello.

MILLIE: Hi. Okay, she won't hurt you.

SIMON: What's the dog's name is?

MILLIE: Presley.

SIMON: Presley. I'm Simon.

SIMON: Millie.

MILLIE: Come on in.

SIMON: Also wanted to save the town. Asked her last name not be used.

MILLIE: This is exciting. I mean, I've heard so much about you, and I want to ...

SIMON: I have to ask, where did you hear about me? From who?

MILLIE: Oh, Lord. This is a small town. I mean, it just—all over. [laughs]

SIMON: The telephones are ringing with my name?

MILLIE: [laughs] Pretty much. Okay. I gotta be nice, right? You're recording all this?

SIMON: I'm recording. You don't have to be nice, though. You can be honest.

MILLIE: Oh, I'll be honest. I have no use for those people. I didn't want them to take our town.

SIMON: How long have you lived in Seneca?

MILLIE: Oh gosh, about 36, 37 years now.

SIMON: And how many people live here these days?

MILLIE: Right in town, maybe I don't know if even 20 do. Yeah. And we get talked about a lot. I mean, we get talked—put down a lot, like "What are you?"

[phone rings]

MILLIE: Excuse me. Hi, honey. I can't talk now. Listen, Simon's here! Do you have anything you want me to ask him? Okay, bye now. She and I have been playing phone tag all day long.

SIMON: Okay, so you were saying that people were making fun of Seneca?

MILLIE: Well, they do. They make fun of Seneca quite a bit, the outside. You know like, "Oh, Seneca doesn't have anything. What are you still doing here?" And it's not like it used to be. I mean, years and years ago, this used to be at the neatest little town you'd ever want to live in, and then it just—I don't know. It just went downhill.

SANDY HANSEN: The town is dying. I mean, that's—that's the only way you can say it.

SIMON: Sandy Hansen. Wanted to save the town. Unofficial town historian.

SANDY HANSEN: This started back in '73, I believe it was, when it stopped being a division point. So the trains no longer stopped here. So that did away with the three hotels, the 24-hour cafe. The man that had the filling station pulled out in front of a semi at Mullen. That ended that business. His brother had the shoe shop, and he died of a heart attack sitting there working on his shoes. The lady that had the variety store tripped on a kitten, and broke her hip. That closed that. And ...

[train horn sounds]

SIMON: Do you mind if we just wait until the train goes by?

SANDY HANSEN: Nope. Anyhow, Seneca really starts dying.

MILLIE: Presley, get away from there.

SIMON: Okay. Well, so I guess I'm here because I'm trying to talk to as many people as I can to understand what happened with the whole vote on unincorporate.

SIMON: Again, saver Millie.

MILLIE: It started out that there was six horses. They were up in mud up to their probably belly, and I think one of them had to be put down because it was kicked. This is how close they were together. Anyway, I mean, I'm an animal lover. I wanted something done about it. Several of us did. So we had a meeting.

NANCY ISOM: We—the board tried to tell them that's not sanitary.

SIMON: Nancy Isom and the rest of the Save Seneca Three.

LARRY ISOM: We did discuss it. You know, we're going to get the horses gone. That's the purpose of the ordinance.

JUDITH BROWN: But it was not just that.

SIMON: Judith Brown, ender.

JUDITH BROWN: They wanted to get rid of all the horses, all the cattle, all the chickens.

LARRY ISOM: That is ridiculous.

NANCY ISOM: Have your chickens. But do you flaunt your chickens? Do they run around town?

MILLIE: People are so afraid that their animals were gonna be taken away from them.

JUDITH BROWN: And then eventually the board members forbid people to have animals. That was the gist of it. And so more and more and more the town got split.

MILLIE: There's a group of people here and a group of people here. Nobody gets along.

JUDITH BROWN: Nobody on the town board would speak to anybody, which, of course, then that just meant I'd just yell at them louder.

MILLIE: There's certain people that I just give hand gestures.

SIMON: A one-fingered hand gesture?

MILLIE: Yeah, pretty much. Yeah. [laughs]

JUDITH BROWN: People said things like, "My dog doesn't want to be friends with your dog." It was awful.

SIMON: Are you Terri by chance?

TERRI HARTMAN: Yeah.

SIMON: Can I have 20 minutes of your time to talk?

SIMON: Terri Hartman, who wanted to end the town.

TERRI HARTMAN: Yeah, this just got ugly. They started taking pictures of people's places and put it on Facebook and say how they didn't clean up their property. And just public shaming people.

SIMON: This was the Save Seneca people that were posting this?

TERRI HARTMAN: Supposedly.

LARRY ISOM: You know, there were aggressive comments.

NANCY ISOM: We did have the sheriff come up. Did anyone tell you that?

TERRI HARTMAN: It was just out of control.

JUDITH BROWN: I mean, what about a Xanax, you know? I took a lot of them during those years. It was a very unhappy time. And so finally, people started going around with a petition to get the unincorporation on the ballot. We thought we will just unincorporate.

LARRY ISOM: Unincorporate.

JUDITH BROWN: Unincorporate.

NANCY ISOM: Unincorporate our village.

MILLIE: Unincorporate.

LARRY ISOM: There are agitators in every group.

JUDITH BROWN: [laughs] Okay. That's me.

SIMON: That seems kind of like the nuclear option here, right? Like, we're just gonna blow the whole thing up.

JUDITH BROWN: Oh yes, absolutely.

MATTHEW HANSEN: I think that sense of shared community was just slowly dissolving year by year.

SIMON: Again, Matthew Hansen of the Omaha World-Herald.

MATTHEW HANSEN: And it didn't have it—had probably to do with what was happening in Seneca, but I also believe that it had to do with what was happening in the United States. Sort of the idea that winning the argument is more important than the much harder job of coming together and saying, "Okay, we disagree on this. Let's find a solution to our problem."

ROBERT: I'm having a little trouble figuring out what's about to happen. Like, how close is this?

SIMON: The sense in the town was certainly that this thing was just a dead heat.

ROBERT: Really!

SIMON: Split right down the middle, yeah.

ROBERT: Oh, it's that close.

SIMON: That close. And so when we come back from break, Seneca goes to the voting booth and decides.

[LISTENER: This is Kim Eslinger calling from Bismarck, North Dakota. Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org.]

JACQUELINE LICKING: Hello.

SIMON: Hello, my name is Simon. I think I sent you a letter a week back.

JACQUELINE LICKING: Oh, we're not going to talk.

SIMON: Even—even for five minutes?

JACQUELINE LICKING: Nope. I don't want to. You'll probably talk to the haters, but I'm done. Let the lying dogs lay.

SIMON: Okay. Thank you so much.

JACQUELINE LICKING: All right.

SIMON: Bye.

JACQUELINE LICKING: Goodbye.

SIMON: All right, so that was—that was Jacqueline Licking, who is the woman who circulated the petition. And she just refused to talk to me.

ROBERT: I'm Robert Krulwich.

SIMON: And I'm Simon Adler.

ROBERT: This is Radiolab. And Simon Adler is with me. Just before the break you were saying, Simon, the town was in god awful trouble.

SIMON: Trouble. Half the town was so upset with the town and the government and the people of the town that they were circulating a petition that would end the town itself.

MATTHEW HANSEN: I mean, I got where they were upset, but I certainly don't get the idea that the solution is to end this place that has existed since 1888.

SIMON: This again is Matthew Hansen, reporter for the Omaha World-Herald.

MATTHEW HANSEN: And it bugged me.

SIMON: And why—why did that bother you?

MATTHEW HANSEN: Because I'm from a small town. I could imagine it happening to my town, and I could also empathize with the frustration of the people who wanted to keep it a town. I mean, you have to meet Sandy Hansen.

SIMON: Will you show me a couple of your favorite artifacts you got here?

SANDY HANSEN: Sure.

MATTHEW HANSEN: Who operates a museum of Seneca history.

SANDY HANSEN: I want other people to know just how nice this place is.

MATTHEW HANSEN: You cannot go to her museum and not say, "Wait a second. This place has value."

SANDY HANSEN: This one I wish could talk.

SIMON: What, we've got baseball jerseys here with an 'S' on them.

SANDY HANSEN: This is the Seneca baseball teams. I got the uniforms—even the socks.

SIMON: Oh, wow!

SANDY HANSEN: One pair of pants. Don't have a cap.

SIMON: Seneca had a baseball team?

SANDY HANSEN: Oh, yes. Known all over the country. Now this is a newspaper cutout. 1860. These are pictures of families that lived here. These are advertisements of people of the area.

SIMON: You've got a Seneca centennial hat.

SANDY HANSEN: Yes. And ...

SIMON: And so people just send you stuff?

SANDY HANSEN: Mm-hmm.

SANDY HANSEN: And so is part of the concern here that the history will be forgotten?

SANDY HANSEN: Yes, it is. Because we have been a town for 120-some years.

SIMON: And so what does it—what does it mean to be a town?

SANDY HANSEN: What does it mean? It means neighbors coming together for the good of each other. When my husband died, he died in Texas. I brought his ashes back and planned on just having a graveside service out there at the cemetery. Well, the townpeople wouldn't hear of that. They had a big meal prepared. My yard was mowed, the water was turned on. Everything was ready to go. And it became a full service.

SIMON: What did that feel like?

SANDY HANSEN: Felt like home. Like the way you're supposed to feel, you know? Warm and wanted.

JUDITH BROWN: You see, they're talking about something that used to be.

SIMON: Again, Judith Brown who wanted to end the town.

JUDITH BROWN: They wanted to preserve it the way it was. And I agree. It used to be a lot of fun, but that's true of any town up and down this railroad.

SIMON: But so if they're—if they're trying to preserve it, then what are you trying to do? You're just accepting that we're going downhill here?

JUDITH BROWN: No, I'm accepting that for I myself, I can't do any better than this for myself as an aging woman. I've only lived here 20 years, but I'm from here. My mom, my dad, my cousins are all strung all over these hills and this grass, you know? Anyway, I guess what I'm saying is to me, it's heaven. Like, I don't care about my house falling down. I'm 70 years old, and I'm gonna finish up my art supplies and die at the respectable age of 96. And I do have enough art supplies. [laughs] that I've been putting up for years to do that.

SIMON: And was that the nerve that was being touched? You're bad because you want to live this way?

JUDITH BROWN: Yes. These people saying we can be proud of our town, we can make it hustle and bustle.

SIMON: So if they're saying that then you're saying, no, we can be proud of just the way it is now.

JUDITH BROWN: Yeah. See?

SIMON: Okay, so how—when did you first hear about the petition going around?

MILLIE: Oh gosh.

SIMON: Again, Millie from the Save Seneca side.

MILLIE: I think the same day it was going around, I heard about it.

SIMON: And how—how did you feel in that moment?

MILLIE: It was horrible. It really was—it was just—it was more than frustrating, it was just like somebody punches you in the gut and just lets all the air out. You know, it's just—it's just sad.

JUDITH BROWN: Mostly it just seemed like if we could get rid of this unbelievable piece of bureaucracy then we could just live here. So finally the unincorporation, it got on the ballot at the regular election, where you do the senators and all that. We had a special ballot for Seneca where we voted for the town and would it or would it not be unincorporated.

SIMON: And what did you feel when you were going to that to vote? Were you ...

JUDITH BROWN: I don't remember feeling anything except I've got to get in there and vote.

SIMON: If you don't mind just telling me how you voted.

JUDITH BROWN: Oh, I voted to unincorporate.

SANDY HANSEN: I voted to keep the town incorporated.

TERRI HARTMAN: I voted to unincorporate.

NANCY ISOM: I voted to keep the town.

JUDITH BROWN: And then she said, "Okay, that's the last Seneca ballot."

SIMON: Shoes on or shoes off?

JACKIE SEVIER: Shoes on.

SIMON: Okay.

SIMON: Jackie Sevier, saver.

SIMON: And so just because I don't think I've ever had anybody explain this to me yet, can you explain the night of the election and what—what actually happened?

JACKIE SEVIER: Well, you know, we have internet access, so we were watching the election results on the internet to see how it came out.

SIMON: And who is "we?"

JACKIE SEVIER: There were, I don't remember, four or five of us, six of us, maybe. I'm not sure who all was there.

SIMON: And so what—were you, like, refreshing the page over and over again? How did that work?

JACKIE SEVIER: No, we knew about what time there would be a—you know, we gave them an hour or so, and we logged on and saw it. We saw that the village was unincorporated. It was by one vote.

SANDY HANSEN: It was 15 to 16. We lost our town.

SIMON: Sandy Hansen again.

SIMON: What was that moment like?

SANDY HANSEN: [laughs] I can't say it on the radio.

SIMON: So what was lost?

JUDITH BROWN: Well, the day after they decided to abolish the town, the sheriff come down with them. I don't know whether they thought we were gonna shoot him off with guns or what, but the sheriff came down, they took the grader, they took the tractor.

SANDY HANSEN: They took our snowplow, and we no longer have our street maintenance, our lights, maybe our identity. I don't know. We never had much here, but we didn't ask for much, I mean, we lost it. We lost.

NANCY ISOM: Seneca will be taken off at the map, and if it isn't on the map where they can look it up, they ain't no more, nobody even knows it's there. Well, I cried. I mean, it hurt.

SIMON: Nancy Isom again.

NANCY ISOM: Because I've been here since my third grade year.

JACKIE SEVIER: People are moving away.

SIMON: And Jackie Sevier.

JACKIE SEVIER: I myself am ready to go. We're all ready to leave. We don't have anybody. There's been nobody move here since. Nobody.

SIMON: It sounds like you're saying the future is gone.

JACKIE SEVIER: I wouldn't say it's gone, but I would say it's very, very limited and unlikely.

TERRI HARTMAN: Yes, I voted to unincorporate.

SIMON: Again, Terri Hartman.

TERRI HARTMAN: But I love this town. And I think the people who voted to unincorporate it are the people who wanted to keep things the way they were. We didn't want to change. I know everything has to change, but—but I didn't know what else to stop the fighting. You know, this is my hometown too. I don't know how to explain it. It—it just got so ugly and out of hand. And some of the members of the village board were just crazy.

MILLIE: But the town board was just three members.

SIMON: Millie.

MILLIE: They have to do really what the majority of the town wants to do, otherwise we can get rid of them.

SIMON: So you believe in the democracy of Seneca?

MILLIE: I believe in democracy. Does that make me an idiot? [laughs] I mean, I live in hope, you know? [laughs]

MATTHEW HANSEN: It just—it really felt like Seneca had lost something essential when we're talking about basic American democracy.

SIMON: Again, Matthew Hansen of the Omaha World-Herald.

MATTHEW HANSEN: And it worried me to see that in part because I could feel that, and still feel that happening on a national level. The kind of just complete lack of conversation around shared values or compromise.

JUDITH BROWN: I've gotta smoke more and drink more.

SIMON: And one last time ...

JUDITH BROWN: Okay.

SIMON: ... Judith Brown.

JUDITH BROWN: So ...

SIMON: Can I tell you what I—what I hear here? Maybe the strongest argument for keeping Seneca a town on the books is that then there was some sort of framework to force those two communities within the town to be together and to think together. And with that now gone, there is now no communication, no compromise, no ...

JUDITH BROWN: There wasn't before. So none of those people had anything to do with us before except to continually criticize how we were. So we couldn't compromise with these people. They were not rational. All rationality was gone by then. And what's gonna happen with this next election?

SIMON: But America is full of diverse opinions, and it has managed to work. And I guess if we take what happened here and if we apply that model to the rest of the United States, like, if not a town, then what?

JUDITH BROWN: We have the county, we have the state, and the little town without those hateful people in it is really quite lovely.

SIMON: But it's not a town anymore.

JUDITH BROWN: I don't know why you think that.

SIMON: Well, officially, right?

JUDITH BROWN: But it is a town. [laughs] Here we are. I'm gonna live here until I die and so is Rose and Harry until some woman lands him.

SIMON: So you would say that even though on the books Seneca no longer exists, Seneca still exists?

JUDITH BROWN: We exist. And we're still two tribes. Two tribes of turkeys, that's how I usually put it, that'll never get along.

ROBERT: This story was produced and reported by Simon Adler. Special thanks to Ryan Scott on slide guitar, Michael Shoup on trumpet, Chase Cope on engineering help. Special thanks also to Matthew Hansen, a reporter at ...

SIMON: The Omaha World-Herald.

ROBERT: ... the Omaha World Herald. Okay. We'll be back next time.

[ANSWERING MACHINE: To go to the next message press 6. Message three.]

[MATTHEW HANSEN: Hi, this is Matthew Hansen from the Omaha World Herald. Radiolab is produced by Jad Abumrad. Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design. Soren Wheeler is senior editor. Jamie York is our senior producer. Our staff includes: Simon Adler, Brenna Farrell, David Gebel, Matt Kielty, Robert Krulwich, Annie McEwen, Latif Nasser, Malissa O'Donnell, Arianne Wack and Molly Webster, with help from Nigar Fatali, Phoebe Wang, Katie Ferguson, Alexandra Leigh Young, W. Harry Fortuna and Percia Verlin. Our fact-checkers are Eva Dasher and Michelle Harris. ]

[ANSWERING MACHINE: End of message.]

-30-

 

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

 

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of programming is the audio record.