[RADIOLAB INTRO]

LYNN LEVY: All right, so tell us who you are.

NIVI: I am Nivi!

ANDREA: And I'm Andrea, Nivi's mom. We are in Hopkinsville, Kentucky, for the great American eclipse. We are about a minute to totality.

NIVI: Oh, look, I can see it even when it's not on.

ANDREA: We can hear the cicadas.

NIVI: And look, I don't even have my sunglasses on! And I can still ...

ANDREA: You can't look at it without your sunglasses on. You're just holding them up.

NIVI: Yeah.

ANDREA: What do you see over this way? Is it looking dark?

NIVI: Yeah, it looks like a storm coming in.

ANDREA: It does look like a storm coming in.

CHILD: Jupiter!

NIVI: Jupiter? Where?

ANDREA: Oh, my God! Oh! Oh, my God! Oh!

NIVI: I see nothing.

ANDREA: Are you looking up? Oh, my God! Oh, my! Whoa! Do you see the ring?

NIVI: Yeah! Totality!

MAN: Holy Toledo!

NIVI: Yeah.

[cheers and applause]

WOMAN: Oh, my God, Stella. Look. Look up there.

JAD ABUMRAD: Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad.

ROBERT KRULWICH: I'm Robert Krulwich.

JAD: This is Radiolab. All right, so these last few weeks on planet Earth, on this corner of planet Earth, have been a little confusing, a little crazy. But then there was yesterday. We all got a reprieve, and we just got a chance to look up.

MAN: Look at that! Look. Look up at the sun.

JAD: A couple hundred people sent us recordings from all over the place.

WOMAN: I'm in Greeley, Colorado.

WOMAN: Helen, Georgia.

WOMAN: Nashville, Tennessee.

WOMAN: Kenmore, Washington.

WOMAN: Carbondale, Illinois.

JAD: Sent us recordings of themselves watching the moon pass right in front of the sun.

MAN: That's the moon in front of the sun. The moon is blocking the sun.

CHILD: I see Venus!

ANDREA: Oh, my God. That is wild!

JAD: And I gotta say, you hear these recordings and you can't help but think I think we're gonna be all right.

NIVI: I can only see black.

MAN: Oh, my God.

ANDREA: Here, stand up.

WOMAN: It's beautiful.

MAN: Oh my God.

JAD: So in honor of this celestial miracle, today we're gonna keep looking up, but not in the direction of the sun.

ROBERT: Well, you know, when you look up at the sun, you have to put on these glasses to protect yourself from the sunshine. The sunshine is very powerful, and it stretches across vast, vast, vast, vast distances in space. But what we're gonna do at the end of this hour is we're gonna leave the sunshine behind. We're actually gonna escape the sunshine where humans have never been before.

JAD: Right. And we're gonna start with a story that I've been following pretty much my entire career at Radiolab. You kind of have to rewind back 1977. I mean, that's not when I started following the story—that's when the story itself started. In August of 1977, NASA launched a spacecraft, and on the craft was a gold record. And the record carried a message. This was a message from us to them out there—our story. Now it was Carl Sagan ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Carl Sagan: The cosmos is all that is or ever was or ever will be.]

JAD: ... who led the team that made the record, and that team included— actually, it was headed by a woman named Ann Druyan. And about 10 years ago, I spoke with Annie and we made this story that you're about to hear. I visited Annie at her home in Ithaca, New York, and we sat in the backyard near a waterfall in the same spot, she says, where Carl himself would sit and become so absorbed in what he was reading that he would not notice a deer standing right next to him.

ANNIE DRUYAN: My name is Annie Druyan, and I was honored to be the Creative Director of the Voyager Interstellar Message Project, which began in early 1977.

JAD: Now how did this come about? I think about the project now, and it's so exciting to think about. I mean, it's such a romantic idea. Did you know that at the time?

ANNIE DRUYAN: Absolutely. We felt, first of all, that this was a kind of sacred trust. That here we were, half a dozen very flawed human beings with huge—huge holes in our knowledge of all of these subjects, building a cultural Noah's Ark. It was a chance to tell something of what life on Earth was like to beings of perhaps a thousand million years from now, because the—the Voyager engineers were saying this record will have a shelf life of a billion years. If that didn't raise goosebumps then you'd have to be made of wood.

JAD: [laughs]

ANNIE DRUYAN: It was also the—the season that Carl Sagan and I fell so madly in love with each other. And here we were taking on this mythic challenge and knowing that before it was done two spacecraft would lift off from the planet Earth moving at an average speed of 35,000 miles an hour for the next thousand million years, and on it would be a kiss, a mother's first words to her newborn baby, Mozart, Bach, Beethoven, greetings in the 59 most populous human languages, as well as one non-human language, the greetings of the humpback whales. And it was a sacred undertaking, because it was saying we want to be citizens of the cosmos. We want you to know about us.

JAD: Tell me about the moment you fell in love with Carl Sagan. You said it was during the Voyager compilation.

ANNIE DRUYAN: Yes, it was. It was on June 1, 1977. I had been looking for some time for that piece of Chinese music that we could put on the Voyager record and not feel like idiots for having done so. And I was very excited because I'd finally found a ethnomusicologist composer at Columbia University who told me without a moment's hesitation that this piece, Flowing Streams, which was represented to me as one of the oldest pieces of Chinese music, 2,500 years old, was the piece we should put on the record. So I called Carl who was traveling. He was in Tucson, Arizona, giving a talk. And we had been alone many times during the making of the record and as friends for three years, and neither of us had ever said anything to the other. We were both involved with other people. We'd had these wonderful, soaring conversations, but we had both been completely just professional about everything and as friends. And he wasn't there, left a message. Hour later, phone rings. Pick up the phone and I hear this wonderful voice, and he said, "I get back to my hotel room and I find this message and it says Annie called. And I say to myself, 'Why didn't you leave me this message 10 years ago?'"

ANNIE DRUYAN: And my heart completely skipped a beat. I can still remember it so perfectly. And I said, "For keeps?" And he said, "You mean, get married?" And I said, "Yes." And we had never kissed, we had never, you know, even had any kind of personal discussion before. We both hung up the phone and I just screamed out loud. I remember it so well, because it was this great eureka moment. It was just like a scientific discovery. And then the phone rang, and I was thinking, "Oh, [bleep]!" And the phone rang, and it was Carl, and he said, "I just want to make sure that really happened. We're getting married, right?" And I said, "Yeah, we're getting married." He said, "Okay. Just wanted to make sure." And the spacecraft lifted off on August 20, and August 22 we told everyone involved. And we were together from that moment until his death in 1996 in December.

JAD: Wow. Talk about romantic. My God!

ANNIE DRUYAN: It was so romantic. And part of my feeling about Voyager obviously, and part of what I was feeling in the recording of my brain waves, my heart, my eyes, everything in that meditation on the record. I had asked Carl whether or not it would be possible to compress the impulses in one's brain and nervous system into sound, and then put that sound on the record and then think that perhaps the extraterrestrials of the future would be able to reconstitute that data into thought. And he looked at me on a beautiful May day in New York City and said, "Well, you know, a thousand million years is a long time, you know? Why don't you go do it, because who knows, you know? Who knows what's possible in a thousand million years?" And so my brain waves and REM, every little sound that my body was making was recorded at Bellevue Hospital in New York. This was two days after Carl and I declared our love for each other. And so what I often think is that maybe a hundred million years from now, you know, somebody flags that record down, and I always wonder because part of what I was thinking in this meditation was about the wonder of love and of being in love. And to know it's on those two spacecraft. Even now in my—whenever I'm down, you know, I'm thinking, "And still they move. 35,000 miles an hour, leaving our solar system for the great wide open sea of interstellar space."

JAD: Billions of years from now, the sun will have reduced this planet to a charred ashy ball, but that record with Ann Druyan's brain waves and heartbeat on it will still be out there somewhere intact in some remote region of the Milky Way preserving a murmur of an ancient civilization that once flourished on a distant planet. So that's how we ended the original story with that quote from Carl Sagan. And it happens to be actually the 40th anniversary of the Voyager probe's launch. I mean, we're sort of in between the two dates where probe one and probe two were launched. And so we were thinking about the anniversary, and our producer, Amanda Aronczyk, called up Anne Druyan again, and they got to talking about the fact that we still—scientists are still talking to those probes.

ANNIE DRUYAN: That's the thing that gets me. Here we are 40 years later, and Voyager 1, we're still in contact with Voyager 1. We still know where Voyager 1 and 2 are. We were able to build something so well that with the energy, which is essentially more feeble than the energy in a toaster, we can communicate with Voyager as she leaves to wander the Milky Way galaxy intact, with the message intact. Well, those same engineers said it would work for a dozen years. It's 40 years, and it's still working.

JAD: So coming up, we're gonna ask: where are they, actually? Where specifically are those two probes now?

ROBERT: And the answer is, they're in a very, very, very undiscovered place. I mean, they are learning things that we have never known.

[LISTENER: Hey, this is Becca. I'm calling from Dallas, Texas, to let you know that Radiolab is supported in part by the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation, enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world. More information about sloan@www.sloan.org.]

JAD: Hey, I'm Jad Abumrad.

ROBERT: I'm Robert Krulwich.

JAD: This is Radiolab.

ROBERT: And now we're gonna ask, where are those Voyager probes, like, right now?

JAD: I mean again, this is a story we've been following forever. And about five years ago, producer Lynn Levy began to ask herself that question: where are they? Because at that point, news was starting to bubble up that the Voyager probes were about to tiptoe their way across a truly amazing threshold.

ROBERT: And at that moment, it wasn't completely clear what was happening. So here's what we reported then.

JAD: We're gonna break in at a certain point and update things even further. But Lynn began this story where the last one left off.

LYNN: Okay, so, like, the point of the mission wasn't really to deliver this record. It was to go out and look at all the planets in the outer solar system. So starting in 1977, these two little spacecraft.

ANNIE DRUYAN: Two spacecrafts, Voyager 1 and 2 ...

LYNN: ... went racing away from Earth snapping pictures.

ANNIE DRUYAN: And so every time Voyager would reach another planet, you know, all of the Voyager people would get together, go into the imaging room, and see the pictures come from the outer solar system.

LYNN: Do you remember seeing them?

MERAV OPHER: I remember as a child seeing them in Life Magazine. You know, I was seven when Voyager was launched.

LYNN: This is Merav.

MERAV OPHER: I'm Merav Opher, professor at Boston University.

LYNN: As a grownup, she became part of the Voyager team.

MERAV OPHER: All the pictures that as a kid you look at the books and to see how Neptune looks, how Jupiter looks.

ANNIE DRUYAN: You know, just a complete revelation.

MERAV OPHER: Saturn.

ANNIE DRUYAN: The image of Saturn.

MERAV OPHER: Technicolor.

ANNIE DRUYAN: Like pink and ...

MERAV OPHER: reddish.

ANNIE DRUYAN: ... turquoise colors ...

MERAV OPHER: Yellow and ...

LYNN: And those rings. Just spectacular. They could see active volcanoes on one of the moons of Jupiter.

ANNIE DRUYAN: Finally, that vision of Neptune, of this blue jewel.

LYNN: Really blue.

MERAV OPHER: It all came from Voyager. We had no idea how they looked like before Voyager.

LYNN: Neptune was the last big, cool planet, and it was the last thing they were supposed to photograph. After that ...

MERAV OPHER: The cameras were going to be shut off to save energy.

LYNN: But ...

MERAV OPHER: Carl Sagan convinced them to turn Voyager back to Earth and take a final picture.

LYNN: So on Valentines Day, 1990, one of the ships slowly rotated so it was facing back to Earth, and it snapped a picture.

ANNIE DRUYAN: One last picture.

JAD: Describe it.

LYNN: So it's mostly empty. It's pretty dark. You can see sort of streaks of light coming from the sun. And then you honestly wouldn't notice it if it wasn't pointed out to you, but down in one corner ...

ANNIE DRUYAN: Kind of suspended in a sunbeam ...

MERAV OPHER: There is a very small dot of blue.

ANNIE DRUYAN: A pale blue dot. That was us.

LYNN: In Carl Sagan's words ...

ANNIE DRUYAN: "Everyone you ever knew, and everyone you ever loved, every superstar, every corrupt politician, just everyone in all of history, everything, the sum total. Think of the rivers of blood that have run so that one indistinguishable group could have momentary domination over a fraction of that pixel."

LYNN: It was one of those really rare images.

ANNIE DRUYAN: Every single day I would hear from people who take that pale blue dot so deeply to heart.

LYNN: It was a complete reframing.

MERAV OPHER: After that, the cameras were turned off.

LYNN: But here's the thing: the ships kept going, drifting through the darkness. Even though they weren't taking pictures anymore, they were using, like, their other senses: little instruments that detect, like, how many particles are around, what the temperature is. So they were hurtling through this empty space really fast, measuring, sending that data back. And scientists like Merav were there listening and waiting.

JAD: For what?

MERAV OPHER: It was not clear.

LYNN: But they knew at some point these capsules would get to the edge.

JAD: The edge of what?

LYNN: The solar system.

JAD: The solar system has an edge? I thought it was just a big spiral.

LYNN: It has an edge. It's like a bubble.

MERAV OPHER: See, the sun has a wind. Every star has a wind, but the sun has its own wind.

LYNN: That blows out through the solar system.

ANNIE DRUYAN: It's very fast.

MERAV OPHER: It can be between 400 to 800 kilometers per second.

LYNN: Anyway, it blows out from the sun, past all the planets, and it keeps everything else out.

JAD: Oh, so it's like blowing up a balloon?

LYNN: Yeah.

JAD: The wind gives it a shape.

LYNN: Right. So these little things are cruising out towards this edge, wherever it is. Scientists don't quite know where it is or what it is. The guys in the control room are, like, pinging the ships and, like, "Hey, what's up? What do you see?" And the ships are like, "Nothing." "Well, how about now?" "Not much." "Now?" "Nothing."

JAD: And how long before they actually see something?

LYNN: 14 years.

JAD: Oh, man! That's like driving through Kansas but, like, a million times worse.

LYNN: But there comes a day ...

MERAV OPHER: End of 2004.

LYNN: Where they stop listening for a while because NASA only has so many antennas, and they have to use them to listen to everything.

JAD: Mm-hmm.

LYNN: So for a little while, the Voyager team's like, "Okay, you guys over there can use the antennas. We're going to lunch."

JAD: Yeah. I mean it's not like anything is happening.

LYNN: Nothing's happening anyways. It's been 14 goddamn years.

JAD: Knock yourself out.

LYNN: You guys? It's cool. And they come back a few hours later, start listening again, and ...

MERAV OPHER: It happened very sudden.

LYNN: ... everything has totally changed.

JAD: Really?

LYNN: All of a sudden? Boom!

MERAV OPHER: The speed of the wind dropped from around 380 kilometers per second to 100.

LYNN: Instantly. Just like all at once.

MERAV OPHER: Instantly.

LYNN: And then everything out there started to get messy.

MERAV OPHER: Very turbulent. Much more turbulent than before. Particles are also behaving a very different way, and the fields are very weird.

JAD: The fields?

LYNN: The magnetic field?

JAD: Oh.

LYNN: So just like the sun has a wind ...

MERAV OPHER: The sun has a magnetic field as well.

LYNN: The field starts at the sun, and then curves out in this kind of graceful arc through the solar system.

MERAV OPHER: And how the sun rotates creates what people call a ballerina skirt.

LYNN: You know how like a skirt will flare if you spin around real fast?

JAD: Mm-hmm.

LYNN: That's apparently kind of what this field looks like.

JAD: Huh.

LYNN: But way out there, it seemed like the skirt had started to fray, maybe tear a little. Threads had broken off and seemed to be floating around on their own, not connected to anything.

JAD: So what does this all mean? I mean, if the fields are breaking down and the wind is dying down, and you said the wind is what actually creates the space of the solar system, does this mean we're out?

LYNN: No. I kind of thought that was what was happening, but no. It's not out and it's not quite in. It's in the edge of the bubble.

JAD: In the edge?

LYNN: Yeah. But it's not like a little, thin edge, it's a thick edge.

JAD: Huh. So the edge isn't just a line that you cross, it's a place.

LYNN: Yeah. And while we listened, the two Voyager ships moved through this edge for several years.

MERAV OPHER: Then something very interesting happened. The wind on Voyager 1 stopped.

JAD: Like completely stopped?

LYNN: Yeah.

JAD: So now we're out?

LYNN: No.

MERAV OPHER: No.

LYNN: I mean ...

MERAV OPHER: This is what people thought. But the other measurements ...

LYNN: Like temperature, number of particles, the magnetic field ...

MERAV OPHER: Doesn't tell us we're out of the bubble. Nature surprised us again.

LYNN: So now we think there's a place at the edge of our solar system.

MERAV OPHER: Right at the edge.

LYNN: The edge of the edge, that's utterly still. No wind at all. A pause.

MERAV OPHER: People are calling it a stagnation layer, and there is a big discussion as why this layer exists and how thick it is.

LYNN: And by how thick it is, she means when will it end? Because once we get past this ...

LYNN: So has anything ever crossed this boundary before?

MERAV OPHER: No. This will be the first man-made object to leave any star. And Voyager was right there, smiling, touching that boundary.

LYNN: You know, you only do those things first once, like your first kiss and your first taste of alcohol. Your first time driving a car. Your first time you see the ocean. These things open up a whole new world. The first time out of the solar system.

JAD: So when is it gonna freakin' happen?

LYNN: It might've happened while we were talking.

JAD: Gah!

MERAV OPHER: We're thinking from now, any moment now, next couple months, or three years from now, four years from now. It's close.

LYNN: Every day I open my Google alert for Voyager and I look and see did it happen today?

JAD: Do you really?

LYNN: Because if it happens before this show goes out I'm gonna be pissed.

JAD: Every day?

LYNN: Yeah.

JAD: It's the first thing you do in the morning?

LYNN: No. Like, the third thing.

JAD: Okay. So when producer Lynn Levy left that story, at that point five years ago, it seemed like the Voyager probes were in this weird liminal space, kind of stuck somewhere in the edge of the edge of our planetary neighborhood. And that the out moment, that transition moment, could happen at any time. That's where we left it, which seemed honestly kind of frustrating. Like, we did the story too soon. You know, like, that happens every so often. So we decided to call Merav Opher back. She's the scientist you heard in the story, who is part of the Voyager team. And we asked her to pick up the story, like, what happened?

MERAV OPHER: Okay, so since then, we were waiting, right?

JAD: Right.

MERAV OPHER: And this story is fascinating and a little complicated, too, because this was back in 2012, right?

JAD: She says shortly after our story was released ...

MERAV OPHER: Couple of months later. So was in August. Around August, 2012.

JAD: About six months after our story.

MERAV OPHER: The particles—this was fascinating. The energetic particles from the sun dropped.

JAD: So some people thought, "Oh, no sun particles? That must mean we're out."

MERAV OPHER: But a couple of days later, they came back.

JAD: Huh!

MERAV OPHER: And then there was the same intensity as before, and then they dropped again. It almost felt that somebody had opened a window and then closed the window. And then opened a window and closed the window.

JAD: Oh, wow!

MERAV OPHER: So it was kind of weird.

JAD: That is weird.

MERAV OPHER: You expect a classic crossing. It should be sudden.

JAD: Mm-hmm.

MERAV OPHER: It should be, oh, you're in or you're out.

JAD: Yeah.

MERAV OPHER: You don't have this intermediate, I'm in, I'm out, I'm in, I'm out.

JAD: [laughs] I know.

MERAV OPHER: And so this was not the classic textbook and was very, like, what's going on? And there was very heated discussions because, you know, you're waiting to say to the public, "Are we really crossing the solar system for the first time or not?" And we cannot say.

JAD: That must have been frustrating.

MERAV OPHER: Super frustrating.

JAD: And she says scientists started arguing. I mean, there was a bunch of conferences and meetings where they got together, and the scientists essentially broke into factions. Like, you had one faction that was like, "We are out." Another faction was like, "No, no. We're in." And she says at one of those meetings ...

MERAV OPHER: There was a vote. Are we in or are we out? And I just felt this is crazy. This is such a major milestone.

JAD: You can't just like, you know, vote on it. It has nothing to do with it.

MERAV OPHER: Exactly. It was almost like Christopher Columbus, right? Did we really arrive to the Americas? Vote.

JAD: [laughs]

MERAV OPHER: And it was just crazy.

JAD: But she says they did vote.

MERAV OPHER: And the vote was still we're inside.

JAD: So towards the end of 2012, that's what they thought. We're still in. But ...

MERAV OPHER: Something changed, and the something is the sound we were hearing.

JAD: Around the time of these arguments, the Voyager was sending back sound.

MERAV OPHER: The Voyager doesn't have a lot of energy on board, right? So they have a tape recorder.

JAD: Wait, there's a tape recorder? Really?

MERAV OPHER: Yes. I think it's an 8-track.

JAD: What? Like an 8-track 8-track?

MERAV OPHER: Jad, I think.

JAD: It turns out it's true. There are 8-tracks on both of the probes that are capturing ultra low frequency plasma waves.

MERAV OPHER: Two to three kilohertz.

JAD: Which you can actually hear. Now that whoosh ...

MERAV OPHER: That is just the background of the power supply.

JAD: That's just the sound of the Voyager itself idling, basically cruising through empty space. But she says when you listen to the following recording, this what you're about to hear is eight months of time from late 2012 into 2013, eight months collapsed into a tiny clip. What you hear are these little swells.

[tape hiss and whistle]

JAD: Like, there's one.

[tape hiss and whistle]

JAD: There's another.

MERAV OPHER: You have those ramps.

JAD: Now this part gets kind of confusing, but essentially, Murav says those swells, that's the Voyager spacecraft colliding with some new galactic stuff.

MERAV OPHER: So you're hearing there is a ramp of density as you go into the interstellar space.

JAD: I had thought that those sounds, one of those two sounds is the Voyager bursting out of our solar system. But she told me ...

MERAV OPHER: No. No.

JAD: What it is is the sound of the Voyager already on the other side. It's the Voyager basically saying, "I'm in a new space now." And after some analysis—and this part I cannot explain—NASA pinpointed the ejection moment, the crossover moment, to just before the first of those two swells. So if this is the first swell ...

[tape hiss and whistle]

JAD: ... it's just before that. Maybe right there.

[tape hiss and whistle]

JAD: Like, right there.

[tape hiss and whistle]

JAD: That's when we left.

MERAV OPHER: It's so undramatic. [laughs] But we finally escaped.

JAD: Official exit date?

MERAV OPHER: 25 August of 2012.

ROBERT: So now we have a human manufacture that has left the sphere of the sun, that's on the other side, in the other ocean.

JAD: Yeah.

MERAV OPHER: It's like, I'm—I don't know. It's a bittersweet to see all this incredible data that Voyager is giving us, and I want more. I would like another mission there.

JAD: Yeah.

MERAV OPHER: It's almost like somebody giving you, like, a taste. Look how interesting this data is. And whoop! They're leaving.

JAD: Speaking of leaving, Merav says that we can expect to communicate with the Voyager probes for about another eight to ten years, but then eventually, they will lose power and go dark.

ANDREA: It's recording.

WOMAN: What time is it?

MAN: It's 11:33.

ANDREA: One more minute. Like, one minute.

MAN: We're getting close.

NIVI: It's getting so dark.

MAN: Just a sliver left.

MAN: 30 seconds.

MAN: It's getting dark. It's okay.

MAN: Look, at all the lights are turning on.

MAN: Yeah!

WOMAN: The street lights have turned off. We are about 10 seconds from total eclipse. Oh, there it goes! There it goes. Oh, my God. Whoa. It's almost gone!

MAN: Look at that. Look! Look up at the sun.

WOMAN: Emma, look up!

MAN: What the.

WOMAN: That's it!

WOMAN: We've hit total eclipse.

WOMAN: Oh my God!

WOMAN: Wow. I can see the corona.

WOMAN: Oh my God. Look at it.

WOMAN: Oh my God!

WOMAN: Oh my God, it's incredible.

WOMAN: Oh, my—I'm crying.

MAN: This big black dot in the middle of the sky with white halos coming from it. Oh, my goodness, the stars! Look at the stars.

WOMAN: Look at the stars, Max.

CHILD: Dad, look how beautiful that is.

WOMAN: Look at all the stars! The stars. There's Venus. There's a plane, and then there's a bird.

MAN: There's a bird.

CHILD: It's so pretty. That's so pretty!

JAD: Thank you to everybody who sent in their recordings. Big thanks to producer Lynn Levy, scientist Merav Opher, Amanda Aronczyk for producing this update, and Annie Druyan.

[ANSWERING MACHINE: To play the message, press two.]

[MERAV OPHER: I am Merav Opher, professor of astronomy of Boston University. Radiolab was created by Jad Abumrad and is produced by Soren Wheeler. Dylan Keefe is our director of sound design. Our staff includes: Simon Adler, David Gebel, Tracie Hunte, Matt Kielty, Robert Krulwich, Annie McEwen, Latif Nasser, Malissa O'Donnell, Arianne Wack and Molly Webster, with help from Rebecca Chase, Nigar Fatali, Phoebe Wang and Katie Ferguson. Our fact checker is Michelle Harris.]

[ANSWERING MACHINE: End of message.]

-30-

 

Copyright © 2024 New York Public Radio. All rights reserved. Visit our website terms of use at www.wnyc.org for further information.

 

New York Public Radio transcripts are created on a rush deadline, often by contractors. This text may not be in its final form and may be updated or revised in the future. Accuracy and availability may vary. The authoritative record of programming is the audio record.