[ARCHIVE CLIP: Lesson number two: are you just talking, or are you doing? [speaking non-English] Now you try.]

JAD: Number two. I hear—I hear the sound of a telephone. Hello?

GREG WARNER: Habari za asubuhi.

JAD: A story from Greg Warner.

GREG WARNER: Yes. Hi, Jad.

JAD: Greg is NPR's East Africa correspondent.

ROBERT: You are in—what time is it where you are?

GREG WARNER: It's—it's evening.

JAD: He's based in Nairobi.

GREG WARNER: Around 7:30 in the evening, which is embarrassing because I just told you "good morning" in Swahili, but I forgot how to say good evening. So ...

ROBERT: Oh. Okay.

JAD: So Greg, I mean we were just—anyhow. [laughs]

JAD: We called Greg up because he had written this article for this great website called Transom.org about being a foreign reporter and working with translators and all the mishaps, you know, when you have to go from one language to another.

GREG WARNER: But there's actually a really good example that I didn't use in the piece about the failure to communicate. I could tell you that story.

JAD: Sure, yeah.

GREG WARNER: So—so there's this word, and you wouldn't think of it as untranslatable, but it's the word "serious." And when you ...

JAD: Serious? Like ...

GREG WARNER: Serious. Like S-E-R-I-O-U-S.

JAD: Okay.

GREG WARNER: In my experience, when you hear this word "serious" in East Africa, it does not mean solemn or thoughtful or stern, it actually almost never has something to do with your mood. What "serious" tends to mean is, are you just talking to me or are you serious? Are you doing something? And usually doing is like some kind of transaction, usually financial. I've been asked by, you know, many East African officials, "Are you gonna be serious with me?" And it obviously means, "Are you gonna pay me a bribe?"

ROBERT: Oh!

GREG WARNER: Usually, I pretend to misunderstand at the key moment. I say, "Yes, I'm a very serious international journalist." And—but the story that I want to tell you, it took place a couple months ago.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: Good afternoon everybody. I'm really pleased to be back in Africa.]

GREG WARNER: Secretary Kerry ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: Addis Ababa.]

GREG WARNER: ... visited Ethiopia. And ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: City of enormous energy and in a country ...]

GREG WARNER: ... just a few days before Kerry's visit, nine journalists had been arrested under this relatively recent anti-terrorism law that basically says that any criticism of the government is illegal.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: I had a series of very productive meetings this morning with my foreign minister counterparts.]

GREG WARNER: And Secretary Kerry was giving this press conference.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: I shared my concerns about a young Ethiopian blogger that I met last year, Natnael Feleke, who with eight of his peers have been imprisoned. And I firmly believe that the work of journalists, whether it's print journalists or in the internet or media of other kinds, it makes societies stronger.]

GREG WARNER: You know, he said all the things that you'd expect him to say. He said we believe that free speech and open dialogue is important to the economic development of the country, blah, blah, blah. But ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: We remain committed to our partnership with Ethiopia.]

GREG WARNER: ... this comment was also wrapped up in a lot of praise of Ethiopia. And ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: I'd be delighted to answer a few questions. I'm not sure how that's—you can do that?]

GREG WARNER: ... then came time for questions. He took some vetted questions from the Ethiopian journalists, two more from the traveling press. And to Kerry's credit ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: You know, give this gentleman—I want to give him a shot. I know he was very impatient.]

GREG WARNER: ... he sort of—before he left the podium he was like, "You know what? We're just gonna try something different. We're gonna, like, call on an Ethiopian journalist.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: I want to make sure we get a fair distribution.]

GREG WARNER: Kerry points at this one guy in the second row. Young guy in his 20s, boyish face, wearing a mustache.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: I've only two questions for you, sir.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: I may have invited the hardest question of the day now. But one question. Fair enough? Okay.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: So let me choose. You have raised the issues of Natnael Feleke, who is a blogger, and his friends.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: Yeah.]

GREG WARNER: And then this guy's like, "Well, every time a journalist is arrested, the US gives a statement about this, but ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: These things are ...]

GREG WARNER: ... this keeps happening."

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Repeated—repeating very much.]

GREG WARNER: So then he asks his question.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Is it lip service or are you seriously concerned about the arrest?]

GREG WARNER: Is this lip service, or are you seriously concerned? At this point, everybody's just not looking at Kerry. They're all looking at this journalist who obviously had to take considerable personal risks in a place like Ethiopia in a crowd of journalists, including state-run TV stations, he's—this guy's on camera asking this extremely sensitive question about the arrested journalists.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: We really demand a genuine answer from you. Thank you.]

GREG WARNER: And Kerry looks at him like ...

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: Well …]

GREG WARNER: ... you got to be kidding.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: When I stand up in public and I say something, I try to be serious about it. And I think the fact that I'm doing that is serious. And when I raised him by name in my comments today ...]

ROBERT: Kerry sounds to me like he's sort of insulted by the question. And—and yet ...

GREG WARNER: Right. So remember "serious," the word "serious" in East Africa can be translated very much as, "Are you doing something?" Preferably like a financial transaction, right? And so what this journalist is saying is, "Are you just talking about this or are you doing something?" Maybe threatening Ethiopia with withdrawing aid or withdrawing support. And Kerry says, "I am very seriously talking about this."

[ARCHIVE CLIP, John Kerry: We have previously called for the release of these individuals, and that is the policy of our government. And it's a serious policy. Thank you all very, very much. Appreciate it.]

GREG WARNER: And it seemed to me maybe—you know, you can judge, but it seemed like he was almost, like, "Look, I'm, like, the most serious politician that's out there. I mean, I lost the presidential race in 2004 in part because I was deemed too serious by the American public." You know, like, "What are you accusing me of not being serious?"

ROBERT: We put in a number of requests to speak to John Kerry or someone in the State Department but there was no response.

JAD: Do you think he was aware of the misunderstanding?

GREG WARNER: Who, Kerry?

JAD: No, this—this fellow.

GREG WARNER: Oh, yeah. No, I followed him out afterward.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Greg Warner: Hey, man. Can you pronounce your name for me?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: My name is Ananya Sori.]

GREG WARNER: He's a young guy in his 20s. He's an independent journalist.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Yeah, I used to work in different newspapers.]

GREG WARNER: And I was like, you know, listen, what happened there—and I almost felt like some kind of cultural guide.

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Greg Warner: Because Americans think "serious" means, "I'm standing here. I'm not joking. I'm serious." But when Africans say "serious," and I'm using it generally, they say, "No, are you gonna not just speak, are you gonna do?"]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Yeah. That's—that's exactly my point. Are you going to take sanctions maybe?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Greg Warner: Against Ethiopia?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Yeah.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Greg Warner: Do you feel that that question puts you at risk?]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Maybe. Who knows? That is the job description doing journalism in Ethiopia. [laughs]]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Greg Warner: Thanks so much.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Ananya Sori: Thank you. Thank you. I'll give you a call.]

[ARCHIVE CLIP, Greg Warner: Give me a call. My number is on there. Okay, yeah.]

GREG WARNER: So that conversation was about five months ago.

ROBERT: Do you know what his fate at all? I mean, have you found out whether—did he suffer for this question in any way?

GREG WARNER: No, but I have his phone number so I can give them a call and find out.

ANANYA SORI: Hello?

GREG WARNER: Hi Ananya, it's Gregory. Gregory Warner.

ANANYA SORI: Oh, Gregory. How are you?

GREG WARNER: I'm good. I'm good.

GREG WARNER: So I reached him by Skype. He told me that actually after that press conference, he did get strange calls to his home and some Facebook messages from people he didn't know telling him that he'd better rethink what he said.

ANANYA SORI: That I better line up with the current government direction. And that ...

GREG WARNER: They said you should line up with the government's priorities?

ANANYA SORI: Yeah.

ROBERT: These messages were from the government?

GREG WARNER: It's hard to tell. It has been reported that this Ethiopian anti-terrorism task force will wage social media attacks by getting people to send messages on its behalf.

ANANYA SORI: It was an anti-terrorism task force are the ones that send these kind of message.

GREG WARNER: And were they threatening?

ANANYA SORI: Yeah, some of them were, you know, insulting and that I would be punished accordingly when the time comes. And it might come one day.

GREG WARNER: A newspaper he founded got shut down after publishing one issue. And he was planning for a while to flee to Nairobi.

ANANYA SORI: To secure my safety.

GREG WARNER: Leave his wife and kid behind, and then maybe return, grab them, apply for asylum in the United States.

ANANYA SORI: You know, my mother and my older brother are based in US, Washington.

GREG WARNER: Oh, okay. Washington.

GREG WARNER: Like a lot of Ethiopians, he's actually got some relatives in the States.

GREG WARNER: Did they hear that you asked the question to John Kerry?

ANANYA SORI: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. They have heard that.

GREG WARNER: What did your mom say?

ANANYA SORI: She said please don't do that. It's not good. They might be, you know, targeting you. Things like that. You know, moms are like that, eh?

GREG WARNER: Yeah, moms are like that.

ANANYA SORI: Yeah.

["You Are My Sunshine" sung in Russian]

JAD: Radiolab will continue in a moment.

[ANSWERING MACHINE: Message one.]

[DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER: Hello. This is Doug Hofstadter calling.]

[GREG WARNER: Hey, this is Gregory Warner, NPR's East Africa correspondent.]

[DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER: I'm supposed to read some text.]

[GREG WARNER: Radiolab is supported in part by the National Science Foundation and the Alfred P. Sloan Foundation.]

[DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER: Enhancing public understanding of science and technology in the modern world.]

[GREG WARNER: More information about Sloan at www.sloan.org.]

[DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER: Radiolab is produced by WNYC.]

[GREG WARNER: And distributed by NPR. And also thanks to transom.org whose series on translation in radio stories got me thinking about some of these stories.]

[DOUGLAS HOFSTADTER: Okeydoke. Thanks, bye.]

[ANSWERING MACHINE: End of message.]

-30-

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